Mange?

[WyoBC]

I was wanting to know what you guys know about mange? a friend with a BC mix just found out that she has mange. I have heard about it before but I can't remember what it does, plus it's late. She said that the dog will probably die from it so I wanted to know. Thanks guys.

[PSmitty]

What? Die from mange? I don't think so! Unless it's some horribly severe case, where the dog has no hair at all and is suffering from secondary infections, I don't see dying as a result of mange.

 

There are two different kinds of mange. Sarcoptic and demodectic. Sarcoptic is easily treated. Demodex is a little tougher, but still quite treatable. My Jack had demodex as a youngster. It is related to a faulty immune system, but he just turned two and is going strong.

 

Find out more info from your friend, like what kind it is. Unless there's more to it, mange is most certainly not a death sentence!

[painted_ponies]

Mange is caused by little mites. Sarcoptic mange mites are called scabies when people get them. And yes, you can catch them from your dog - there's more than one reason to wear gloves when dipping mangy dogs, as I found out once.

 

I've been told the demodex mites are always present, on dogs and people, but dogs don't break out with them unless, as PSmitty says, their immune system is compromised. It's not uncommon in adolescent dogs as teenage years are fairly stressful for all mammals - in that respect, demodex could be thought of as sort of doggy version of zits.

 

For some reason, the belief persists that demodex is incurable, and even in this day and age I've had to convince shelters not to euthanize dogs with demodectic mange. *sigh* Probably that's what your friend's been told.

 

Anyway, the good news is that both kinds are treatable.

[Lenajo]

Generalized demondex is often incurable, and the resulting staph infections in the broken skin from repeated outbreaks can cause a dog a legacy of misery and pain - and in rare cases kill him.

 

Some fates are worse then death...and if you can't control the triggers though lifestyle and diet, and the dog is contant stress and/or pain,requiring extensive toxic skin medication application, euthanisia may be the kindest option.

[Rosanne]

I can't imagine that if she JUST found out her dog had it, that it could already be so bad the dog couldn't pull through!??

 

Wouldn't it be noticeable far before it got to that point? Or at the very least, if it going to be the sort that creates severe, prolonged suffering, I can't imagine the vet would know that without trying to treat it first, right?

[PSmitty]

Generalized demondex is often incurable, and the resulting staph infections in the broken skin from repeated outbreaks can cause a dog a legacy of misery and pain - and in rare cases kill him.

It would've had to go on untreated for quite some time to get that bad. Jack had generalized demodex, and caught early, has recovered just fine. We did fight it for a loooong time, but that was probably because I chose to treat it naturally, rather than use chemicals.

 

It is "incurable" in that it can always return at times of stress in the dogs life. So, they will always have it. If Jack starts to have an outbreak, I just give him some immune boosting supplements (in addition to what he gets all the time, anyway). No problem.

 

I can't imagine that if she JUST found out her dog had it, that it could already be so bad the dog couldn't pull through!??

My thoughts exactly.

[flrpwr52]

My Chip had demodex when he was 2 and we kept it under control until he was much older, about 13. He lived his last 3 years with the demodex always present but not so debilitating to cause him pain.

A dog can live a very normal life with demodex.

[Lenajo]

I've seen dogs go from no visible Demodectic to 90% bald in 3 days. High stress shelter environment/abandonment, vaccination, travel..lots of times a combination of all of the above.

 

Usually the dog has an underlying immune issue that allows this to happen. Temperament plays a factor as well - a high strung, nervous dog may trigger just by emotional stress.

 

Wether or not the dog is going to have quality of life from then on is between the dog, owner, and vet.

 

Demodex runs about an 6-8 week cycle, treated or not. What you treat/prevent/manage is the infections from the weakened skin (and whatever the underlying problem was).

 

There are a lot of normal skinned dogs available fore adoption, and a lot of homes that would not want a dog that looked "sick" periodically. Shelters sometimes have to make decisions.

 

If its a personal pet already you have more options, but again - what's best is very individual.

[WyoBC]

I'm not sure what happenend. I don't think she knows everything about it yet. She said that the vet hates BC's because they can't be treated :confused: I thought, WHAT! I didn't know everything about mange but I thought it could be treated. Thanks for the replys guys. I'll tell her.

 

So if my dog is around her's can he get it? or can he only get it if his immune system is down?

[juliepoudrier]

WyoBC,

What the vet is implying is that because it's a border collie, it's not safe to treat with Ivermectin, which is an excellent treatment for mange. There is a test that will allow the owner and vet to know if the dog in question has the MDR1-1delta gene that makes a dog sensitive to drugs in ivermectin's class (and others). So far, no border collies have been shown to carry that mutation, but many vets lump all collie-type dogs together and refuse to treat with ivermectin because of the risk. The genetic test is not expensive. Check out American Working Collie Association for good, up-to-date information on ivermectin sensitivity in collies. There's lots of good information there, including how to get the genetic test (the page I'm sending you to is the sensitivity page, but if you look around the site, you'll find testing info too). The vet can also increase the dose of ivermectin over about a week, watching for signs of a toxic reaction in the dog, stopping if any signs are seen. It really should be up to the owner to decide if s/he wants to take the risk of treating with ivermectin. If it were me, I'd give it a try. Mange doesn't have to be a death sentence, and if the vet feels that it is, then s/he shouldn't have an objection to the risk of treating with ivermectin.

 

J.

[PSmitty]

Wyobc-

 

As for whether Black Jack can get mange from your friend's dog, it depends on which kind the dog has.

 

Sarcoptic is very contagious, even to humans. Demodex is not contagious at all. It sounds, though, like it's demodex.

[Anda]

Related Question: Mange is caused by mites. But do all mites cause mange?

 

Ouzo had mites around his left eye when he was 3.5-4 months old. The vet did a scrap test and said it was not mange, but that most puppies carry some type of mites, that they're getting them from their moms. He had a bald patch over his eye for about 3-4 weeks, then it all grew back and haven't had any issues since. That's why you don't see too many pics of him around that age

 

I still found one, that give you an idea of what he had around his eye. Ouzo at his dorkiest

 

[PSmitty]

Anda, that pic of Ouzo looks a lot like the way demodex presents. It usually starts around the eyes or on the face. Thinning around the eyes is the first place I see it on Jack, if he has an outbreak. And, the first vet who scraped him didn't find mites, either. It was only as it progressed, that the second scraping found them.

 

All dogs have the mites, all the time. It's only in young puppies (who are still developing a strong immune system) and dogs with compromised immune systems, that the mites "take over".

 

I bet Ouzo had a case of localized demodex, and just fought it on his own, once his immune system strengthened. Many puppies get over it with no treatment at all.

[Anda]

Paula, he DID find mites when he looked under the microscope. He just said it's not mange. I don't remember the treatment he gave us, some sort of ointment, then we put a bunch of neosporin. (I'll try to dig out the vet receipts, maybe I find what he was treated with).

[Anda]

Found the receipt. At 4 months he was given Ivomec 1% following the skin scraping. ($18 for the Ivomec and $21 for the scraping )

[PSmitty]

Well, that's weird that he said it wasn't mange. He sure treated it like it was! (Ivermec)

[Anda]

I realized that, after I did a search on the internet for the medication prescribed. Maybe he didn't want to alarm us?! Why not, don't know. Anyway. Well, what's important is that after that one dose he pulled through and never had any problems. Thanks, Paula.

[AK dog doc]

If he found demodex mites, it was mange. Those are found on a skin scrape, and if you see one you assume there are a hundred more that you didn't get in the scrape. It might be that your vet - either by habit, or because sometimes people DO freak out a little when told their dog has mange - uses the term "mange" to refer to the "contagious" form and the only one which is a human health risk. (Technically, demodectic mange IS contagious since dogs are not born with it, they acquire it in puppyhood from their mothers - but it's a "normal" parasite that everyone has after a certain age, so it's not thought of in the same terms as sarcoptic mange. Also, apart from everyone catching it in infancy, they don't pass it along to others.) We got demodex from OUR mothers, just like puppies do, so it's not a zoonotic disease (one transferring between people and animals or vice versa.) Sarcops we CAN get from animals - or they can get it from us. My very first sarcoptic mange case was actually as an intern, and the owner came in and said "I think my cat has sarcops." Well, you essentially NEVER hear an owner say something like that (it's usually "my dog/cat it itchy"), so I had to ask her why she thought that. She said, "Because I got it from one of my clients [she was a hairdresser] and now my cat is also intensely itchy." The cat had one tiny scab on her side. I scraped it and lo and behold, a sarcops mite. Since these are NOTORIOUSLY difficult to find on a skin scrape, I was pretty excited that I found one. I made everyone look at it. They were kind of excited too.

 

There ARE mites which are not referred to as "mange mites" - earmites, for example. But both demodex and sarcops are mange mites.

[WyoBC]

Wow, thanks for all the info. I didn't know that much about mange before. Good infomation guys

 

 

ETA: Anda I like that pic of Ouzo, he's funny

[bexie]

Probably a stupid question, but what are the chances of a border collie that tends to chew on her sides like something itches having mange? Especially when there are _no_ signs of hair loss.

 

We've had her to the vet (no scrape performed or offered) and got sent home with sebacil to wash her in. After the first treatment, she was really sick for several days so the vet said not to continue it. We also found out at that point that she had worms, so we had to hurry and deworm her as soon as she recovered from the sebacil.

 

The vet seemed to suspect that the problem is more likely behavioral, but she does it in the middle of a play session, so it doesn't seem like something she does to get attention.

 

Our pup isn't a rescue, but we are her second rehoming so she hasn't exactly had a stable puppyhood. But other than this side-chewing and tail-chasing behavior, she seems well-settled and happy.