Stay!

[Melody]

Just wondering if anyone has some tips how to reinforce the "stay" command.

 

Scamp is learning everything else brilliantly, even heel...

 

His homework from puppy class is to work on stay because if I say stay (with or without holding my hand as a stop signal) he jumps up and/or barks immediately, so i cant even reward him for a 1 second stay lol

 

Thanks

[Kat's Dogs]

Teaching stay to a Border Collie (most of all a pup!) is not easy - but it can be done! The trick is VERY small steps:

 

Have Scamp sit next to you. Say "stay" (you may need to change the command if the word is causing the reaction - "wait" and "hold" are good ones). As soon as you say the word "stay" then say good dog, give a treat and then "OK" (or whatever your release word is).

 

Slowly lengthen the time between the "stay", "good dog" (with the treat), and the "OK". But still only have Scamp beside you. Once you have a couple seconds on your stay with him sitting beside you, start stepping in front of Scamp after you say stay.

 

If he gets up, gently grab his collar and put him back into the EXACT position he was in (and don't say a word while you are doing it). And whatever you do - DO NOT REPEAT THE STAY COMMAND AFTER THE CORRECTION! Once he is back say good dog and release him. Just don't repeat the command. Ever. Once you say "stay" once he should stay there until you say "OK" (or come or another command)

 

Each time he stays successfully, on the next one take a step back. If he does that, then take two steps back, next time, three steps and so on and so on.

 

Also, always reward while he is IN the stay - never after he is up (and needing to be put back) or after you release him. The clicker would help a lot with the stay. That way as soon as you give the command you can click immediately to mark the behavior before he even has a chance to get up.

 

So,

Never repeat the stay command.

Always reward (or click) while he is in the stay

Start very simple (say almost as if it is one word, "sit stay OK" at first)

Take very small steps

Very short training session but lots of them.

 

Once he is getting good you can work on the "three Ds". "Distance", "Duration" and "Distractions". Only work on one "D" at a time.

For example: One day you might work one getting him to stay while you are throwing his toy, another day you might work towards a 3-minute sit stay, another day you might work on out-of-sight stays and so on.

 

If he still continues to jump up you will need a correction (a collar jerk would be good). And for corrections, try not to ever do the same level of correction twice in one training session. If he gets up from a stay, just put him back. If he gets up AGAIN in the same training session, up the correction a little (put him back with a little collar correction) and so on. If he make the same mistake 3 times in a row - change training tactics because it isn't working. Either up the corrections or try some other method.

 

I know that this was long, sorry, but I hope it helps a bit.

Happy training!

[Coloradogirl]

With the 4-H kids this is what we do.

 

1. Heel position with Scamp sitting (left side).

 

2. Say Scamp stay, in firm voice at same time place hand in front of nose (usually with fingers pointing down palm facing dog.

 

3. with right leg step around directly in front of Scamp, keeping leash held up over him so you have a straight line from where leash attaches to collar to your hand. (this way if he decides to get up when you step around to the front you can correct immediatly and put back into sitting position). You will be standing right in front of Scamp.

 

4. Wait for a few seconds then step back to the position that you were in.

 

5. Wait for a few seconds so he dosent start thinking that when you return to position that he is done.

 

6. Give your command for exercise finished (My daughter Britani usually says heel for a few steps and then says that'll do, and lots of praise).

 

Repeat until he is staying put, may take a few days, or may take a few times, once he is staying with you stepping in front of him then you can start increasing the space between you and him. Really important things to remember.....

1. Always leave on the opposite foot away from the dog when using the stay command. (when using heel command you start with the foot/leg next to dog)

2. Never EVER increase distance until the dog is good at staying with you standing directly in front of him.

 

I know I have left stuff out, I will have my daughter look at this and add what I have left out.

 

 

Oh, we use "wait or hold" only when you are going to call Scamp back to you for recall. Stay needs to be used for when you are returning to Scamp.

 

Tracy

 

Oh, one more thing too, with "treating" the dogs, we have found that with both the border collies the treats actually distracted them and it was harder to get them to do as we wanted. Now with the Angus terrior, and the ACD they will not work without treats, so just test to what works for you and Scamp.

[Kat's Dogs]

1. Always leave on the opposite foot away from the dog when using the stay command. (when using heel command you start with the foot/leg next to dog)

Yes, this makes sense BUT I would NEVER do it. When I say "stay" I expect the Dazzle to stay no matter what I do. It shouldn't matter what foot I move or what my hands do (unless it is a hand signal). The dog should stay no matter what. When I proof my stays I do everything I can to trick her. As a result, she has rock solid stays.

 

Also, as for using the "hold" or "wait" as a stay command - that was assuming you don't do Agility or something like that and wouldn't need two commands. Dazzle has a "wait" (Agility start line) and a "Stay". However, even if you want a wait AND a stay, you could still use the command "hold" instead of "stay" and "wait" as "wait". I do call Dazzle out of a "stay" though - like I said above, she shouldn't care what I do as long as I did the training correctly. Having two commands is not a must, a lot of people do, and a lot don't.

 

Regardless though, it really doesn't matter what command you use. You could use the command "google-eyes" for all dog cares!

 

3. with right leg step around directly in front of Scamp, keeping leash held up over him so you have a straight line from where leash attaches to collar to your hand. (this way if he decides to get up when you step around to the front you can correct immediately and put back into sitting position). You will be standing right in front of Scamp.

This is VERY good. We also teach our stays with the leash in this way. It works really well to help the dog along.

[Coloradogirl]

The leaving on the right foot is a obedience thing, in 4-H. A judge used to judging 4-H obedience will actually cut your points (strictly 4-H here) if you leave on your left foot. Alot of classes have been won and lost by this type of petty thing.

 

I however do agree, that always leaving on the opposite foot causes a problem because if you forget and leave on the left foot alot of times the dog will break. I expect my dogs to stay no matter what is going on around them. IE) throwing a ball, or other dogs running around them.

 

As far as a hold or wait, it is the same thing just depends on the person. Use one or the other but not both. And yes Stay is just that stay no matter what!!!

 

We never have had the chance at Agility, but my daughters have always wanted to participate with their dogs.

 

Tracy

[Melody]

thanks very much for the replies, will try working on this starting right now lol

[Journey]

Stays are tricky in that you are not asking the dog to "do" anything. Aside from what's been posted here I also teach my stays with "opposition".

 

By placing light pressure on the lead, while you have your hand on the chest you use the dogs natural opposition to your benefit. As you place pressure on the lead you also help the dog to "win" by placing pressure on the chest to avoid movement. I start this in small steps and gradually move to where I can walk around my dogs, try to lift a front leg and they "resist". I also try to lift their rears and they really push back as if saying "you can't move me"!. I make sure that my dogs understand that stay means your "whole body" - I teach them to pay attention to their feet. In the end I have dogs that can be in a down or sit and I can put a good amount of pressure on the lead and they resist! I don't set my dogs up to fail, I don't trick them or lie to them. I use positive proofing and build a solid confident stay.

 

Good luck!

 

Karen