All Hell Broke loose tonight

[Shetlander]

I have learned through sad experience not to rely on a dog to keep the peace. I used to think dogs could "work things out" on their own. And they often do...until they don't, sometimes with tragic consequences. Please stay observant and careful.

[Maralynn]

HJTRAS - Please don't let your dogs police themselves. *You* are the one that needs to call the shots and keeep the peace. If you leave it up to the dogs then it is an accident waiting to happen. Honestly, Ziggy sounds like she's being a brat toward your male. A seven month old pup shouldn't be calling the shots. And, with that type of attitude, it is only a matter of time before she challenges the other female and that won't be pretty.

[Gloria Atwater]

Ziggy is a female going on 7 months she really is a great dog has potty issues don't want to talk about that "GRR". Her herding instincts are immense and she is not shy about using them.

She understands our other female and allows the discipline. But the males she has no problem being aggressive I think it took her off guard when Dublin reacted and bit . but she has been very cautious since and has Dublin in the corner of her eye at all times. She is very food aggressive to the point we have to feed her in the crate and put her in the crate when we eat.

We have 2 cats I think somewhere in the house. When she spots them she is more curious than anything. I can see the aggressive nature and working on it. It helps having a dominate female dog in the house to try and keep the peace.

 

 

Just remember this: what we see as "herding" is actually stalking. Herding is after all an abbreviation of hunting/stalking behaviors. Since non-border collies don't herd, dogs like Dublin don't instinctively grasp border collie games and can very easily read that stalking/hunting behavior as a threat and provocation.

 

Imagine you know someone who is a natural at blocking in football or basketball. All well and good, but if that person gets up in your face and teases you every time you try to walk anywhere, you'd get sick of it pretty darned quick. That's what Ziggy's "herding" feels like to another dog.

 

Per food aggression, be extremely careful with that. You might even consider hand-feeding her food. Instead of meals in a bowl, feed her kibble-by-kibble from your hand. If she gets food aggressive about your meals, definitely she doesn't need to be anywhere near where you eat.

 

And as others have said, please don't ever count on that other dominant female to "keep the peace." Ziggy will get older and your older female will get older. The time may very easily come when Ziggy will decide she doesn't have to kowtow any more, and the fight will be on. Bitch dominance-fights can be some of the ugliest, and the last thing you want are two dogs who have bitten each other to bloody messes and a trip to the emergency vet.

 

You need to be the mediator, not your dogs, because the way they sort things out may be bloody, expensive and unnecessary.

 

~ Gloria

 

 

 

[HJTRAS]

Ziggy is a brat. I agree. she really has a issue at times with the male dogs. I think she was blind sided by Dublin because the female throws her down and gives her the business verbally. When Dublin bit her she didn't expect that. As a result she seems to cautiously challenge Dublin every chance she can. Keeping a close watch on the situation.

[GentleLake]

Just remember this: what we see as "herding" is actually stalking. Herding is after all an abbreviation of hunting/stalking behaviors. Since non-border collies don't herd, dogs like Dublin don't instinctively grasp border collie games and can very easily read that stalking/hunting behavior as a threat and provocation.

 

This is why people who have livestock guarding dogs have to be careful that they are well socialized with the border collies and understand that they're "allowed" to be around the livestock. That border collie stalking reads to them like a predator coming to eat their sheep.

 

As we've cautioned before, you're sitting on a potential powder keg with the group of dogs you have. Please be vigilant.

[HJTRAS]

Thank you Gloria Ziggy's food aggression is limited to the other dogs mainly the males. I can take any food out of her mouth or give her any food from mine and no people aggression at all, if I throw a biscuit on the floor its hers period. Obviously I don't do that. Our little terrier was even afraid to take a biscuit from my hand if Ziggy is near by so I had to fix that .I would be surprised if she challenged our female Dezi she is a very obedient yet strong enforcer without aggression.

Dezi can scare the pants off from the pope because she is so vocal. She will jump on top of Ziigy and growl till ziigy licks her face and then all is good. Example Ziggy still needs a leash so took the dogs out and put the leash on Ziggy, well Dublin decided he was gong to take the leash from me and lead Ziggy. Well I was not cool with that at all. but out of nowhere Dezi come flying in and knocked Dublin away and stood between us keeping Dublin away from the leash and she meant business. Dublin never tried to take the lease again. But as good as Dezi is that Rottweiler guarding instinct has it own issues.

[Mom of Mya]

We had a yorkie, first for a year, and then an american eskimo (female 5 pounds and male 45 pounds) for 15-1/2 years. That little yorkie when we brought the eskimo in right off the start showed the pecking order and we were told to let them work it out by several people but the size difference always scared me and I did not do that. I always tried to put the yorkie in her place as well as the eskie. He was very laid back and never really showed any aggression at all until he got older and sick with arthritis but I sure did not want to take any chances. It did become an issue once when our daughter moved out with her yorkie and then back in again. At that point, the eskie was showing her the same way she did him at first that he was now the dominant one, he growled at her when she tried to approach my husband, and we had to tell him to back off as it could have been very disastrous so we watched them every time they were together in the same room. I have read recently of a lady who had 3 schnauzers that had lived together for like 6 years and then one day the two younger ones took to the older one and killed it. Schnauzers I never dreamed of, but they are dogs.

 

You have to be on guard but since there has been one provocation already I would be on extra guard. I know in obedience classes we took the trainer told me I had to stop Mya from the staring gaze thing because the other dogs did view it as aggression even though she was just wanting to get them all together to play. I try to be on guard and watch it also when we are out in public walking around stores or walking down the road. So many people out here just let their dogs run even though it is against the law here in Indiana and I am afraid if one gets she is being aggressive we could have a dog fight going on.

[CMP]

Yeah, two bitches fighting it out is nasty business.

 

Our guard dogs are bred here as well and the puppies of both breeds have a lot of interaction until they are about 4-5 months. Then they spend several months apart being trained and climatized, then they spend time together while the BC are being stock trained where the guard dogs are 'observers'. They tend to tolerate the BC - but they do not like them and the BC are trained to be very respectful of them. We did have an incident about ten years ago where a young guard dog killed two BC puppies. Took about two minutes and there was nothing any of the humans present could do and by the time someone got a tranq gun, the puppies were dead. It was the only such incident but it led to some pretty sweeping changes as to how the guard dogs and the BC were housed and trained.

 

You can let dogs work it out themselves if they just have your basic issues - jostling and so on - but if anything serious happens the pack leader, if you will, will be expected and is required to settle the matter. My dogs know I will break up a fight and they know they are in for some serious time in solitary confinement if they fight amongst themselves. They tend not to fight - they're more like siblings and do nasty things like steal food, tear beds to shreds, dig up buried bones, hide food dishes, turn over water dishes, tease with toys, steal sticks, etc. They do all know I have a limit on aggression and when I reach it, they are simply removed from my presence so they tend to keep the aggression to low growls instead of outright snarls.

 

You DO need to remember that you are the boss and at the end of the day, you have to establish the environment YOU want to live in.

[sandysfarm]

I have two 5 year old females and I agree with CMP that the girls can be timebombs if you let them. Mine never have a cross word. But there 's so much overly polite and just-slightly-stilted body language between them that you gotta know there 's a mutual pact in place. So I check how it 's doing every chance I can and separate them when I'm out.

[HJTRAS]

Dezi is by far the one dog none the others will ever challenge and she has never fought or even bit. its her attitude and assertive aggression. problem is she does it with people she does not know too. Dezi the rotti mix. Ziggy the BC loves and respects Dezi.