Herding instinct takes over and she ignores us!

[DiamondsMom]

Hi - my first post, so I hope I'm in the right board. Diamond is 2 years old, and we've had her for a few months now.

 

MOST of the time she's pretty well-behaved and obedient. But the last few times we've taken her to the dog park (the only place we can let her off leash in our city) she gets obsessed with a certain dog or activity, and starts circling at full-speed. NOTHING can get her attention and it's frustrating for us and for other dog owners.

 

Any ideas what we can do? It's like her herding instinct kicks into overdrive and NOTHING else in the world exists.

 

Thank you!

[MrSnappy]

Two solutions:

 

1) a long line. It will allow you to control and manipulate your dog, since you can't do it verbally from a distance

 

2) foster an interest in "fetch" with your dog. If she is busy playing fetch, she won't be bothering other people's dogs.

 

Frankly, I can see why the other owners get upset. That's such an annoying behaviour and if often starts fights. If you know you can't get her to stop, don't allow her to start. Bring her to the park on a long line and work with her at some distance from the other dogs until she responding to you. The gradually work up to getting closer to the other dogs as your control improves. And as I say, teach her to focus on something else, like fetch, so she doesn't engage in the other behaviour.

 

RDM

[Pipedream Farm]

We teach our dogs three commands that you may find useful for this behavior.

 

"that'll do": stop what your doing

 

This is one we use in herding to let the dog know it's time to stop working. Often it's followed with "here" meaning stop what you're doing and come here.

 

"leave it" and/or "get out of it" We use these to tell the dog to leave an object alone, typically to not pick it up, and to get out of something they're getting into. This last one we'll use to tell a dog to stop working, bugging, or playing with another dog. We'll also use it when we're out in the fields with the dogs (not working sheep) and one has its head down obsessing (or eating) something on the ground.

 

"Leave it" is taught on lead when the dog takes an interest in something we want the dog to ignore. It's taught with the command followed by a leash correction appropriate for that dog. "Get out of it" is typically taught off lead (in our fields) by giving the command and running at the dog chasing it off what it's into.

 

If it were my dog, I'd use the long line with a verbal correction ("get out of it", "leave it", etc) followed by a leash correction and reward the dog's compliance with another behavior the dog will enjoy like fetch.

 

Mark

[urge to herd]

Great ideas from Mark and RDM, just want to add my experience and suggestions.

 

With Samantha, one of her signs of anxiety is circling dogs or people. At the park I used to take her to, you could just see her nervousness increase as all these dogs kept running around with NO ONE IN CHARGE! It's probably a border collie thing. I'd take her home when she started that circling and she'd sleep really hard, a sure sign that she had been stressed. Your Diamond (great name, btw!) may not be a dog park kind of dog, a lot of dogs aren't.

 

As for the training ideas, I think they're right on, but I'd start in a much less distraction and tension laden atmosphere, and work up to parks, etc. A long line on a rambunctious dog at the park can be dangerous. Start in your back yard, or even inside, gradually move to more and more distractions, working with her on the long line and getting her used to the idea that no matter what or where, she listens to you.

 

As for the treats or praise thing, use what works. Somebody mentioned in the other thread about different situations calling for different rewards for their dog. Buzz loves treats, but in in particularly stressful situations for him he wants either a good round of tug or a brisk neck scratch or to meet a new human. With food, one way to fade the treat is to have the treats off your body - on a shelf a few feet away, for example. When the dog responds correctly, you go get the treat, then come back and give it to them. Takes a bit longer, but it gets the dog used to the idea of delayed gratification. (a tough one for me, I must admit.) Then you can start treating for every other correct response, etc etc.

 

Good luck! Let us know how you and Diamond get on.

 

Ruth n the Border Trio

[DiamondsMom]

Thanks all.

 

She LOVES to play fetch but she loses focus if there is another dog nearby that she has a particular interest in. She will chase the ball but not bring it back and then she'll take off to play with the other dog. MOST of the time we're able to get her attention, but not consistently enough for my liking. "Fetch" is not enough to keep her attention.

 

MrSnappy - yes, I TOTALLY understand other owners' annoyance with her behaviour - I would be annoyed as well. I didn't mean to imply that I thought they were being unreasonable.

 

Pipedream Farm - She knows "leave it" as in drop the toy but she doesn't know "that'll do" - I'm trying to work on that. Thanks for the tips!

 

urge to herd - I was wondering if it was an anxious reaction as well, but she REALLY loves going to the dog park and it's been good for her confidence and it's helped her to get along with other dogs much better. (When we first got her, she was quite timid and would hide behind us and snarl at others). Now she plays with them and in general is able to customize her style of play to suit the dog, and 3/4 of the time, everyone has a great time!

 

Is it a good idea to teach her to associate her name with getting her attention. Ie. should we be yelling 'DIAMOND!!!' to get her to listen, or should we implement some type of command?

 

Thanks again!

[MrSnappy]

Originally posted by DiamondsMom:

Is it a good idea to teach her to associate her name with getting her attention. Ie. should we be yelling 'DIAMOND!!!' to get her to listen, or should we implement some type of command?

Her name is not a command - it's just her name. If you over use it, she's just start ignoring it.

 

Say her name and then ask for a behaviour (like "that'll do") but don't just constantly shout her name as it's meaningless in terms of getting a behaviour out of her. If I wanted you to do the dishes, but just kept saying your name over and over again, you probably wouldn't know what I was getting at, right? And then you would probably get annoyed and tune me out. So that woudl achieve nothing for me.

 

A good rule of thumb is to not deliver a command you cannot enforce. If I tell my dog to "leave it" and he doesn't, I run like hell at him and MAKE him leave it.

 

Good luck

 

RDM

[urge to herd]

Is the dog park big enough that you can be a good distance away from the other dogs? If so, do the long line thing that RDM suggested, work as far away as necessary to keep her attention on you or the ball or both. Gradually, over a period of days if not weeks, work in closer. If she loses focus, back further away for a bit. However you have to do it, start further away from the distraction and work your way closer.

 

Also, call her to you, pet, praise, let her go back to playing, several times each session at the dog park. Let her know that you calling her does not equal fun ending.

 

But, for right now, if she starts to herd the other dogs, remove her and go home. She'll figure it out.

 

Use whatever you want - I do tend to use my dog(s) name then a command.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth n the Border Trio

[DiamondsMom]

Thanks again - sorry, I should have been more clear - we usually call her with "Diamond - Come!" in various tones - "happy voice" , "serious voice" , "REALLY serious voice".

 

We're giving the dog park a try tomorrow, with her on a long lead (I think it's 50 feet) and luckily since the park is big enough, and most of the dogs congregate at one end, we should have some distance in order to start this new training process.

 

This forum is wonderful - border collies are such a unique breed, I love it that they have their own forum here!