KnottyClarence Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Just wondered if anyone had any feeding suggestions for a dog in this circumstance? Conservative approach thus far has been grain free (Fromm's, from WI) kibble, but no supplements. Had a bit of trouble getting him to eat (he's had several surgeries), so any snacks that looked appealing to him have also been offered, most notably Bil Jac treats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Is there a reason you're not sticking with the raw diet? J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Myself and my dogs get more than normal omegas of all kind. Also, vit c can help with inflammation. But check with your vet of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnottyClarence Posted March 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Just wondered if anyone had any feeding suggestions for a dog in this circumstance? Conservative approach thus far has been grain free (Fromm's, from WI) kibble, but no supplements. Had a bit of trouble getting him to eat (he's had several surgeries), so any snacks that looked appealing to him have also been offered, most notably Bil Jac treats. He has a plate and many screws in his pelvis. Vet said raw fed dogs have a higher bacteria count in their blood usually, and these bacteria could migrate to the plate and cause infection. I had not heard this. She said "just cook it", but the mix I use has ground bone and cooked ground bone is like glass shards. As I have understood it, freezing kills the bacteria. I have been feeding raw for about 12 years and have had no problems whatsoever from contaminated food. I was also wondering about supplements, glucosamine and condroitin, and what kind of amounts. One side of his pelvis has FHO, the other has the plate. He was hit by a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 He has a plate and many screws in his pelvis. Vet said raw fed dogs have a higher bacteria count in their blood usually, and these bacteria could migrate to the plate and cause infection. I had not heard this. She said "just cook it", but the mix I use has ground bone and cooked ground bone is like glass shards. As I have understood it, freezing kills the bacteria. I have been feeding raw for about 12 years and have had no problems whatsoever from contaminated food. I was also wondering about supplements, glucosamine and condroitin, and what kind of amounts. One side of his pelvis has FHO, the other has the plate. He was hit by a car. Higher bacteria count in the blood?? I thought that might be termed septicemia as I understand septicemia to be a generalized internal infection. Usually treated with abx. what I am trying to say is: bacteria shouldn't be in the bloodstream unless there has been a cut or similar that allows the bacteria access to the bloodstream. Since bacteria should be too large to cross stomach or intestinal lining (from a raw diet) in the normal course of circumstances, how do they find their way to the bloodstream? Of course, when talking biology, there is always an exception. What is her source for the statement "raw fed dogs have a higher bacteria count in their blood usually, and these bacteria could migrate to the plate and cause infection."? Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnottyClarence Posted March 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Higher bacteria count in the blood?? I thought that might be termed septicemia as I understand septicemia to be a generalized internal infection. Usually treated with abx. what I am trying to say is: bacteria shouldn't be in the bloodstream unless there has been a cut or similar that allows the bacteria access to the bloodstream. Since bacteria should be too large to cross stomach or intestinal lining (from a raw diet) in the normal course of circumstances, how do they find their way to the bloodstream? Of course, when talking biology, there is always an exception. What is her source for the statement "raw fed dogs have a higher bacteria count in their blood usually, and these bacteria could migrate to the plate and cause infection."? Jovi I actually don't know. That's kind of why I tossed this out onto the Board. We were talking about this early in his trauma, and I didn't pursue her sources at the time. Now she's on a different rotation--it's a big place, and I haven't had a chance to bring it up again. I did hear the same thing from another person this am, a vet tech, who also said higher bacteria in the dog's mouth could cause trouble if he licked the wound. He's been though a lot, kibble for the rest of his life (high quality!!!) won't be the worst thing that happens to him, but he does really like the raw. Vitamin C has been suggested, and Omegas, so I will check this out. He comes home today, and that is a relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I *might* buy the bacteria in the mouth thing, but dogs pick up a lot of nasty stuff to eat or chew on, they lick their butts, etc., so I'm having a bit of trouble seeing how a raw diet would be a risk to his surgical wounds, which he shouldn't be licking anyway. Do you have access to a holistic vet? If so, an appointment would be worth your time/money to get good information on the best natural products/supplements to help with healing and restoring function. I've used both cinnamon and turmeric as anti-inflammatories for old, arthritic dogs on the advice of my holistic vet. I'm sure there are other natural products that could help. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Funny, I would avoid a vet calling him or herself "holistic" like the plague... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Maybe it has a different meaning where you are. Here holisitc refers to vets who are willing to use alternatives to traditional allopathic medicine (acupuncture, Chinese medicine, etc.). Not sure why that needs to be avoided like the plague, but perhaps you're influenced by the fact that your wife is a (allopathic) vet? J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 No not really, I have had scientific training before I met her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 So care to expand on why you are against holistic medicine? It's odd to say "stay far away" and yet offer no explanation for why you feel that way. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Well this might not be the place for this discussion, but in a nutshell, I prefer my medical treatments to be based on methodologically sound scientific research, rather than for instance ancient chinese mythology, or people who think that water has memory (by the way, those are the ones who introduced that fun buzzword "allopathic"), or claim that manipulating the spine can treat any disease etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Okay, fair enough. As a chemist, I have a hard time wrapping my head around homeopathy (don't use it), but I don't find the use of herbs or Chinese medicine or acupuncture so odd.... J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Agree with Smalahundr (despite being raised on holistic treatments), but more because of a history of medicine and science background. I'm a big fan of herbal or herbal-origin remedies, but I like them standardised for the active ingredient (not the plant itself), in a stable form, and with solid research behind them (like taxol, aspirin, opiates etc) so you know what you're getting. I would be more familiar with wound healing in humans, where you want high-protein, and adequate b vitamins and vitamin c (which should preferably be from the diet rather than from supplements, so you get all the concomitant good stuff from eating good food). Vitamin K + A are important too, but deficiency is unlikely. Basically, all stuff you get from fresh meat anyway. I've heard it recommended to use non-ground meat and poach it lightly, so that you kill the bacteria on the outside but it isn't actually cooked. It depends on where you get your meat, too: a good, hygenic enough source, and good storage, would mean it had less bacteria. Think steak tartare. Grass-fed meat would also have lots of omegas, or you could add a bit of fish as well (which might also help tempt him to eat, if the pleading stares I get whenever I open a tin of tuna are anything to go by.) Chondritin and glucosamine have little or no evidence behind them as of yet, but are unlikely to do harm. The better-designed the study, the less likely it is to show any effect of glucosamine on pain, which usually means it has none. Watch out for supplements- even with human supplements, there isn't a whole lot of regulation on whether they do what they claim to, whether they contain what they say, how safe they are etc. One can only imagine the situation for animal supplements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnottyClarence Posted March 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just a little update. He's doing very well with FHO surgery--if anybody ever needs this for their dog, be it from accident or displaysia, my experience is that FHO works very well. He will have a limp,as his left hind is now a bit shorter than the other legs, but four days after surgery he is sequencing with it and seeming much better overall than I've seen him since the accident. He will be getting cooked fish, and I think cooked meat and veg instead of the usual raw mix. He also has been enjoying ice cream and cream cheese (with his pills), which is good because he lost a bit of weight. Whew, what a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Well this might not be the place for this discussion, but in a nutshell, I prefer my medical treatments to be based on methodologically sound scientific research, rather than for instance ancient chinese mythology, or people who think that water has memory (by the way, those are the ones who introduced that fun buzzword "allopathic"), or claim that manipulating the spine can treat any disease etc etc etc. IMO, holisitic is not necessarily ancient chinese medicine (though I agree that some of it ceratainly is and I'm a bit skeptical of that too). I see it more as a rounded approach to health care and a willingness to think outside the box of strictly traditional medicine. For instance, I don't think that chiropractic care is the end all to medical care, but I know that it definitely can be the treatment for some issues and I'd want a vet that is open to that. IRT diet, a home made or raw diet isn't a magic bullet, but I've had two dogs now that had chronic health issues that went away when I took them off of kibble and started feeding them a more natural diet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just a little update. He's doing very well with FHO surgery--if anybody ever needs this for their dog, be it from accident or displaysia, my experience is that FHO works very well. He will have a limp,as his left hind is now a bit shorter than the other legs, but four days after surgery he is sequencing with it and seeming much better overall than I've seen him since the accident. He will be getting cooked fish, and I think cooked meat and veg instead of the usual raw mix. He also has been enjoying ice cream and cream cheese (with his pills), which is good because he lost a bit of weight. Whew, what a month. Glad he's on the mend!! FWIW, I've used The Honest Kitchen Preference with my dogs and they did well with it. It's a veggie/vitamin/mineral premix that you need to add a protien source to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaT Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 He has a plate and many screws in his pelvis. Vet said raw fed dogs have a higher bacteria count in their blood usually, and these bacteria could migrate to the plate and cause infection. I had not heard this. She said "just cook it", but the mix I use has ground bone and cooked ground bone is like glass shards. As I have understood it, freezing kills the bacteria. I have been feeding raw for about 12 years and have had no problems whatsoever from contaminated food. I was also wondering about supplements, glucosamine and condroitin, and what kind of amounts. One side of his pelvis has FHO, the other has the plate. He was hit by a car. Hi, I was just doing some research on possibly getting a BC, and I saw your thread while reading this forum, and just wanted to comment on this.... I had a dog that had a TPO due to hip dysplasia, which consists of a plate and seven screws in the pelvis. We (the vet and I) think that the plate was a resevoir for lyme bacteria that would hide out and be a cause of reinfection. The bacteria can get to the plate, and because there is not a good blood supply around it, the bacteria can survive. There is also something about the bacteria creating biofilms which makes it harder for antibiotics kill any of the bacteria (along with the problem of the blood supply). This was a bacteria living in the tissues though. So, the issue of bacteria and the plate is a real one, and I was told might be relevant later if there are any teeth cleanings, etc. I don't know about the raw diet and bacteria though. Processed dog food and treats are also often high in bacteria. While some studies point to shedding in raw fed diets, they fail to point out the same happens in kibble fed diets: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/3/477.full . I fed homecooked for years because that was what my dogs did best on. I would use a joint product that contains glucosamine and chondroitin - the FHO side won't need it, but all the other joints would benefit from it, particularly since there will be an imbalance in the body. I'm glad to hear that he is getting better Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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