kelpiegirl Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Take a look- you will see what I mean- poor dog- must have thought the owner daft!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pax Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I'm so sorry it cut off....where'd he BRING them if that was the outrun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Most of the video was him swimming on the outrun-he messed up by crossing over at the sheep, but he swimming part- and the look on his face was priceless! Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pax Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 I went back and found another video by the same people. It looks like that's a damned up spot in their paddock and the dog didn't need to go that way, but they like to go that way because they get wet. The woman you hear on the video comments it must be nice cause it's so hot out. The second dog does it too. Thanks for sharing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 At the World Trial in Tullamore, Jim Cropper's Sid was bringing the twenty sheep around the handler's post and came along the fenceline right by the water tank. Smart dog on a hot day, he just jumped in and out of the tank on his way (he didn't deviate from his path), getting cool and doing the job. He probably lost some points, I'd guess, but I thought he was one smart dog that was getting the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOOSEDOGS Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 That's a great video! I don't know about the world trial,but at the Bloomfield trial in CT, your dog can go to the water trough to cool of before continuing with no points lost. This trial is in July and temps are in the 90's usually.I'm not sure if they must complete the drive first or they can dip at any time, but it sure is humane for the dogs! Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 To me the dog in the video simply looks lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 I agree with you Melanie. He's not going out with purpose and keeps looking around as if he has no idea where the sheep are or what he's doing out there. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 I took a different tack on this- I was thinking that he was wondering why the heck he was being sent into a body of water to get to the sheep... Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borderlicious Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 I'm not sure why they're insisting that the dog go through the water. It'd be so much swifter to send him around that swamp thingy. But, as usual, I don't know a damned thing about working sheep so I'm not sure why anyone does what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidelis Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Well the video is mine and so was the dog. The dog is a very novice dog and the dog was suppose to go around the dam but instead cut thru the dam. The dog was daft as he could have taken an easier route around the dam but he didn't realise and nether did the handler realise that the grass part of the dam was water. this was the first time the dog had been run in this paddock and also first time at this distance i thought he did a reasonably good job taken in the circumstances it was just a shame he crossed in front of his sheep at the top. I think its unfair to critised unless you know the cirumstances of the day. The second dog is the same dog just going the other way and again he could have taken the eaiser route but choose to cut thru the dam again. This board i have notice seems to take great pleasure in knocking what other people are doing and when you find out the dog is also a kennel Club Show dog you can have another good old laugh. Once again at some one elses expense, go for it as i have other things to worry about just going to a friend wake and also at work this week we had a murder suicide. Remember a few years ago someone from here made fun of my web page and my dogs why don't you go and get a life. Tracey Fidelis Border Collies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pax Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 I quite liked the video. I loved that he looked back, asked for direction, and trusted enough to keep going. I'm sorry if anything I said felt hurtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Looks like a young dog....a bit of barking, little unsure but he/she did swim to the sheep....(not all dogs will swim)....as for the crossover....look at the sheep....they are running away and young dogs usually prefer to gather off the hind ends than the heads (less stressful)and that caused the dog to cross and then he/she did cast out and started to fetch them. Young dog in training is how I see it. He/she got to the sheep, did a cast and started to bring them back...(maybe shortened the distance or hold the sheep for next time).... I would be more worried if the dog ran up the middle, scattered the sheep, no cast and singled a sheep to chase it down. Or looked up field with empty eyes and posed like "Miss America" diane~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted January 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Simce I posted, I wanted to make it clear- I thought the dog was very good- it kept going despite having to swim there. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Debatable Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I would be more worried if the dog ran up the middle, scattered the sheep, no cast and singled a sheep to chase it down.That's my favorite kind of "very novice" dog Give me the green dog that blows up the middle at warp speed, ignores the handler's shouts, and vanishes over the hilltop while fastened, remora-like, to the neck wool of a galloping ewe... Not that that's a good thing [for dog or ewe] --- just that I'd much rather deal with overdrive than try to encourage a novice dog to break out of a canter, or try to instill confidence in a dog that ducks away if a sheep turns to face him. In my [granted, very narrow] experience, the heat-seeking missiles mature into good working dogs and retain all their keenness. The dogs that lope along and take the scenic route, so to speak, lack the drive and the stock sense to handle sheep that aren't tame and slow. [in my limited experience, as I said ] The dog in the video isn't a working dog, and isn't working-bred, so analyzing its performance in the two videos linked above may be a bit pointless. But was this a blind outrun for the dog? Did he loose sight of the sheep as he was sent out? I kinda hate that he looked back and took his time. I want a dog to be covering ground and scanning the terrain for sheep, not looking back at the handler. As Tommy Lee Jones told his marshals in The Fugitive, "What I want from each and every one of you is a hard-target search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in that area." Don't be looking at me, for Pete's sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I loved the video and I thought the dog did well for the first time. My dogs too were confused the first time in the large paddock. At least the dog persisted until he found the sheep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 This board i have notice seems to take great pleasure in knocking what other people are doing and when you find out the dog is also a kennel Club Show dog you can have another good old laugh.Um, if you read all the posts, not one single person even mentioned that this was a "Kennel Club bred show dog" until y'all brought it up. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. And overall the comments were quite neutral. This is one huge reason I could never do conformation. You all are WAY too wrapped up in other peoples' opinion of your dogs. What does it matter what we think of your dog's working ability? If it were really important to you, you'd breed working dogs, not show dogs. If you told me my dog was cow hocked, mismarked, and had ugly ears, I'd say, yup, you're right. And have a good giggle over the fact that what you notice about my dog is how it looks. And I'd go on appreciating my dogs for what is important to me, the work they do on my farm. Enjoy YOUR dogs for what THEY are and do well, and what I assume is most important to you. And if you don't want people to comment on your young dog's working experiences, don't stick them up on YouTube for all to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would be more worried if the dog ran up the middle, scattered the sheep, no cast and singled a sheep to chase it down. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>That's my favorite kind of "very novice" dog Give me the green dog that blows up the middle at warp speed, ignores the handler's shouts, and vanishes over the hilltop while fastened, remora-like, to the neck wool of a galloping ewe<< I was talking about a dog that only wants to chase and/or kill stock -no herding ability but it is fun to chase for them- and not a high prey dog that is green....there is a big difference there!! I have several high prey dogs that make sure I get a great workout when I train them....one today, matter of fact...I really didn't need my winter coat as I was too busy running after his behind and got warm that way. He was all over the cows and sheep today.....a real handful!! And then I worked a Novice dog that was unsure when confronted by the ram...he bounced her for a good spin and she looked at me a little spooked....so I told her to get him and by the end of the lesson...the un-confident, non-confrontational dog was going in for a full frontal head grip. Started off soft and looking to me for guidance to a head gripping backing down the ram. I love each of my dogs for what they bring to the table...some bring power, some bring me biddability and some bring their hearts.... ....and some of them are the most ugliest dogs that I ever laid eyes on but they shine in my eyes. Beside, my dogs don't look at me and say "Gee, her behind is kinda skinny, no meat on her bones, can't sing a note on key and her knees and hips are all messed up and God we have to make her look good while she is at the post!!" I did a quick visual on my dog's hocks...all cow hocked.....and my working Polish Arabian...cow hocked too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Debatable Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Diane Pagel [DeltaBluez Tess] wrote I love each of my dogs for what they bring to the table...some bring power, some bring me biddability and some bring their hearts.... ....and some of them are the most ugliest dogs that I ever laid eyes on but they shine in my eyes. Very, very well said. Thank you! [i'm posting those words on my fridge.] And Rebecca's right: it's YouTube, for crying out loud. If you can't stand the heat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borderlicious Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 Tracey, Why so tetchy? What exactly was said here that you find offensive? Not one person had a good "hardee har har, lookit the pathetic Barbie Collie trying to 'herd'" over that video, even though they could have. I knew upon seeing the video that he was not working bred but y'know, I like seeing Border Collies work sheep, even if they aren't of the best breeding for the job. So what's the problem? Nobody said a thing about him being a show dog until you mentioned it. Even if the people here completely picked apart what the dog was doing, would you honestly be in any position to get upset? Tell me you haven't ever looked at a dog in the ring and just picked it apart, commented on how unattractive or incorrect it was. How is this any different than what you and the other show folks do all the time? I've BEEN in the "show" culture and I know exactly what goes on ringside. People observing a show will whisper nasties amongst each other, poo-poo ing a dog completely because it has a "bad" ear set, or doesn't move with enough reach in the front, or has an ugly coat. I've never been to a dog show and NOT heard someone saying something like that. There is very little contstructive criticism heard ringside. So don't talk about this board knocking people's dogs when you and your friends do the exact same thing. IMO, A show-bred dog "working" sheep gets about the same response from people as a working-bred dog gets in the show ring. The difference? I see far less nasty things being said by the sheepdog trial folks. And we should get a life? We aren't the ones scanning boards (which we have never participated in) for comments on our dogs, dear. Edit: Re-read this and I apologize if I sounded excessively rude. Eileen, please delete this if you feel it was out of line. I would, but I'm not sure how . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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