Trialing w/ something other than a BC?

[MaggieDog]

My friend has a sheltie (yes a sheltie) who she'd love to try in something other than AKC and AHBA (which he's been doing very well at and advancing quickly in) for a challenge. What trials can she enter her dog in (i.e. which hosting orgs don't require the dog to be a Border collie)?

[PennyT]

I know of no trial that requires a dog be a border collie. I have been a lot of trials all over the country and never hear of one.

 

Penny

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

All the orgs allow different breeds. You can even run in USBCHA Open if you think your dog can get around the course. I've heard of Aussies, ACDs, Kelpies, and Beardie mixes running in Open. And I've seen other breeds that could run Novice (non-Open) courses.

 

The thing that floors many handlers of "other" breeds is the change from trial-trained sheep to stock that are not necessarily cooperative, in many cases.

[Sue R]

Claudia Frank of OH has a Sheltie that has competed very successfully in Open Arena Sheep classes (points and time), winning over Border Collies. I don't know how this particular dog would do in a field class, but he/she and Claudia did very well on the smaller but challenging indoor arena points and time format.

 

USBCHA trials are designed to showcase the strengths of the working Border Collie but dogs of any breed that can do the job can enter, and some are quite successful.

 

Best wishes!

[MaggieDog]

Spiffy! I'll be sure to let her know - I was pretty sure that many trials didn't have a breed requirement but figured I should check with more knowledgable people than I.

 

Thanks!

[kelpiegirl]

Regarding sheep: I have also heard that some Kelpies do better with non-trial sheep-meaning, they are too powerful for three sheep trials...

JUlie

[blackacre]

Originally posted by kelpiegirl:

Regarding sheep: I have also heard that some Kelpies do better with non-trial sheep-meaning, they are too powerful for three sheep trials...

JUlie

Uh . . . no. IMHO, anyway. Although they are certainly bred to work big mobs and so are more inclined to flank off, give to pressure and wear back and forth behind sheep, undesirable traits in a three sheep trial.

 

A

[kelpiegirl]

Thanks for describing this to me Andrea!

Okay, as for the wearing- why are points take off for that, if the sheep do move in a straight line?

I thought the general rule was that the sheep moved in straight lines, and with enough giddy-up, to get it done without a train wreck?

Julie

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Rattles the sheep and usually indicates lack of confidence - in the case of a dog used to moving large groups, it may be unable to find balance correctly - this makes both dog and sheep jumpy. Points aren't taken off though - it's just not something desireable as Andrea said.

[kelpiegirl]

But... What if the sheep aren't rattled?

Hmmm, will be something I have to remember....

Julie

[kelpiegirl]

The below I got from the BC museum. It does descibe the dog wearing back/forth... I guess there is a happy medium here...

 

The Fetch

 

The dog must bring the sheep straight down the field to the handler. A dog with balance will "wear" the sheep, or move back and forth behind them, adjusting his position so as to keep the sheep in a straight line. He must bring the sheep through a set of gates, or "fetch panels" halfway between the release point and the handler. He must be able to judge the distance he must keep back from the sheep to maintain a steady pace. The fewer the signals given by the handler the better. Often a handler must "down" his dog in order to slow him down. Once at the post, the dog "holds" the sheep to his handler for a few seconds to steady them, before turning them around the post and into the first leg of the "drive".

[blackacre]

Think of it as playing "D" rather than telling the sheep where to go. In other words, The dog is "containing" the sheep rather than "directing" them. Sheep read this as weakness. So, for example, at a trial with a heavy draw on the fetch, every flank away from the pressure allows the sheep to move a little bit towards the draw, and likewise, even if this type of dog is not flanking off, it is likely to "give" to the pressure of the sheep ie the sheep will lean on it and end up going off line. In either case, the result is a banana fetch (or drive) and points off. Tough sheep and/or a heavy draw will exacerbate the effect. Points are taken not because the dog is flanking off, but because the sheep are off line, and a straight line is the most efficient way to get sheep from A to B.

Is this weakness, or a lack of power? While it may not be, it can sure look that way.

A

[Lenajo]

Points can be taken off for wearing if its unnecessary. Just like you will see points off on a lift if the sheep only ended up right out of luck...i.e. the dog flew in sideways but the sheep were head first in the grain and didn't notice until after the handler had already stopped his charging dog. A judge can, and should, use their experienced judgement on such matters.

 

Sheep are usually rattled because they perceive the dog is not in control. A dog that flies back and forth behind is typically one that is planning to fly into the sheep as well. And the sheep know that just as well as we do LOL

 

A dog that wears a lot on small numbers typically lacks balance and straight walk in power. He may develop that with age, training, and experience.

 

Note I said "typically"...there are always exceptions to the rule.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

There's a terminology thing going on here too. I've noticed "wearing" among title-focused venue trainers means this type of flanking on the fetch, while working trainers tend to use "wear" to mean holding the sheep to the handler (as opposed to driving away).