Starting from scratch

[Maralynn]

This past weekend I obtained a BC who will turn 2 in December. Kip is pretty much a blank slate right now. The person I got him from had him out on sheep about 3 times. Once when I was there. He looked really nice, had great instinct and balance.

 

My sheep can be a bit pushy with a dog. They respect Missy pretty well, but she is also quite confident around them, so she won't take any flack from them even if they try to push. Tonight I put 4 of the easiest sheep in the barnyard (50 ft square), and went in with Kip. He moved them around fairly well, but they wanted to push him a bit. I had him in there about 2 min and ended it on a good note. And then Miss brought them into the barn. The minute she got out there they turned into very respectful sheep again.

 

I'm trying to figure out if theres a better way to get him going on my sheep? Or should I skip it and take him to a trainer with some really dog-broke sheep while he's building his confidence?

[Katelynn & Gang]

I'd say a trainer with some dog broke sheep, just to get him going.

 

Where in Michigan are you from?

 

Katelynn

[Smokjbc]

Hi Marilyn,

 

Do you think your sheep are pushy because they sense your younger dog's lack of confidence (if that's the case) or pushy because its a new dog and they are uncertain of what to expect from him? I have a few ewes that will test a dog, but they are more likely to challenge a dog they don't know and can't predict what the dog will do than they are to take advantage of a dog with less than ideal confidence. Personally, if it is the latter- I would do both- work him at home and make sure he gets some time on easier sheep.

Be careful that what your sheep are doing is not causing him to lose confidence- if he does get what you need accomplished and you make sure he "wins" every time, I think its more of a benefit than a disadvantage to have sheep that ask questions a little. If your sheep are trying to make a border collie cow pie out of him (charging/trying to smash against fences, running off, etc) then don't work him on those sheep at all. Standing and stamping their foot a little is fine as long as you help him and make sure he wins every time. (not an expert, which is why I answered as I figure the real experts are busy this week

[Maralynn]

Hmm, I hadn't thought about it that way. It could just be they are reacting to a different dog. It was pretty much foot stomping, and I did make sure he won. The person I got Kip from said he wasn't really intimidated by a couple of pushy ewes that he had. I hadn't thought of the pushiness being good in some ways, but that makes sense. Maybe I'll take him out a couple more times while setting up a day to take him to a trainer. He sure wants to work.

 

Katelynn, I'm in the southwest corner near South Haven. Not close to anyone unfortunately.

[Wendy V]

Good answer, Jaime. How are the pups coming along?

 

Maralynn,

 

Another thing to try is to use more sheep, maybe around 10. There is safety in numbers and they tend to settle a bit more. Also, it gives the dog more to think about. Drawback is that a person tends to get stuck in the middle of the pack. Stay in a small area, and watch your knees. If that doesn't work, I know of a trainer in Olivet that has some great dog-broke woolies to work with.

[Smokjbc]

Hi Wendy,

 

Thanks, and the pups are doing pretty well. Mike and his pup are starting to get on the same page- that is quite a nice pup but he has a huge motor and will push into pressure instead of backing off so you have to be real careful which battles you pick with him. My pup, Bess, is still kind of a work in progress character wise. She is alot of fun, very keen but I'm not getting much of a starting point with her yet, it's like she hasn't settled on a method/style of her own, just "WORK SHEEP NOW". She listens well but I am trying to be careful to let her develop her own method instead of putting in what I what I think she should do.

[Maralynn]

Thanks for the tip, Wendy. I'll give it a try - and make sure to brace myself...

 

I went over to Olivet last fall . It was great. I wanted to take my dog over a few more times, but work got in the way . Now my work scheldule has changed, so with a new dog I've got extra incentive to get back over there and learn some more.

[Maralynn]

Update -

I tried again tonight with about 12 ewes. I did get stuck in the middle, and kinda felt like I was trying to work a loose canon in a sloppy barnyard :eek: . But it seemed to do the trick. They flocked together much better, and Kip got fairly good control over them. They were still a little pushy, but not as bad as the other night, and he handled it all pretty well.

[Wendy V]

Good! 12 sounds like a good number. Objective now is to keeep the sheep between you and the dog, working on him balancing the sheep to you. Use your voice ALOT to try and settle him, slowly back into a corner where you can stop the dog, extricate yourself from the ewes, call him off, and then set up another little gather. If your dog is impatient and jumps into the sheep while you are trying to set things up, use a long line (20 ft) attached to his collar. This will slow him up and gives you something to grab onto if you need to pull him off sheep.

 

Derek Scrimgeor's DVDs and book is a wonderful resource for the beginner. Also, look into Rural Routes video, "Starting your Border Collie on cows, sheep, and ducks". These are very inexpensive training resources that you can refer to over and over again, as your knowledge grows.

 

Good luck