Raising 2 working pups at the same time

[NancyO]

I've raised a number of pups and I've been happy with the results, but I've never had more than one pup at a time. I have decided to keep 2 pups from a litter that we recently had as the breeding will not be repeated.

 

I was looking for people's suggestions about how they raise 2 working pups at the same time.

 

Some background information. I have about 50 sheep that are not housed at my house. I work 4 hours a day, even tho I have 3 dog runs in my 3/4 acre fenced dog yard, I rarely use it. The dogs are crated while I am at work. At lunch time, we all get into the car and head to the farm, where I do general farm and sheep upkeep, work dogs and walk and run the dogs. We eventually return home for dinner. I usually am at the farm about 4-6 hours a day. I am trialing at the national level.

 

Puppies are normally raised in the house and are loose upstairs under supervision. They sleep in a crate upstairs. When a pup gets to be about 7-9 months old, they join the older dogs downstairs. A puppy does not go out with the other dogs on a regular basis, down at the farm when I run/walk the dogs, they are all run at the same time.

 

What I am looking for is information about whether you let 2 pups play alot with each other, do you let them out together all the time, how do you house them etc.

 

Thanks for any information.

 

Nancy O

 

ps Robin, thanks for your prior input.

[Pipedream Farm]

What we have done in the past is to spend one on one time with them each day in shifts. We do let them play together, but not for hours on end. While one is with me in the house, the other is crated with the rest of the dogs. It's a lot of work, but that one on one time is really important.

Good luck, Renee

[NancyO]

They've spent more together time in the last week than I would like, as our son and 7 1/2 month old baby have been visiting from Maui. But it's back to the real world now.

 

Outside, they tend to run and be wilder than I like, so their time together outside is being restricted. When they are inside together, they tend not to play with each other, but chew bones or hooves individually. As long as no silliness is going on, I let them in together.

 

I've walked them separately each day, and use thier recall whistle or "that'll do".

 

Renee, are you dogs all crated together, even the pups?

 

nancy O

[Pipedream Farm]

I do crate the pups when they're about 8 weeks or so. I put some toys in there with them. They are crated with the rest of the dogs. Sometimes I have to put a solid divider between the crates so they aren't pestering their neighbors. You have to understand that I'm home all day so they're not crated all day or anything. I generally break up the day so one pup gets the AM shift and the other gets the PM shift. Then when Mark gets home in the evening, we alternate which pup gets out.

Renee

[Shoofly]

I was pretty bad about not spending a whole lot of one on one time with Zac and Tess but it didn't seem to matter. They spent most of their "loose time" in the backyard with Spottie, playing and running and being puppies. They didn't come in the house much at all until winter, when they were crated inside, not loose. But Zac still ended up *really* bonded to me (Tess too but not as much so). I've been thinking on it a bit since we talked last about this, and i wonder if it's because i started fooling around with the sheep with them at a pretty early age. I put them on at 4 months and probably gave them a turn about once a week or every two weeks from then on, and by 10 months or so was working them regularly (with little pressure of course).

[NancyO]

Renee,

 

That gives me an idea. Since I've been working only half a day, I've not been taking any pups into work with me. I may alternate bringing one of the pups with me into work each day. That would give them individual time with me.

 

Even with my older dogs, I keep a solid divider between thier crates. I had found one of my dogs, subtely intimidating one of the other dogs. The solid divider stopped it.

 

Thanks Renee,

 

Nancy O

[laurie etc]

**Disclaimer- I'm only a Novice handler, but I have raised a number of puppies. It has never been my "choice" to raise two littermates, but sometimes it happens.

I agree that the one-on-one time is very important - as well as limiting the free time with the other puppy and even with the other adult dogs. When crate training, I do usually take them out to potty together, because it seems to help to do that as a group. If they play too much and forget to go, then I would take them separately. I do lots of "structured play activity" to build a bond with each pup individually. I crate and feed them separately. I work on basic sit, down, leash walking and recalls individually. When loose with the "pack", I work on recalls calling away from the other dogs and then releasing back to play, even at 6-8 weeks old. I want the pup to respond/defer to me way above what the rest of his "pack" and his litermate are doing. But at least until the baby teeth are out, the pups get lots of unstructured but supervised play and exploration time; and socialization with new people, dogs, cats, any other animals that they will see regularly. I also make sure that each pup feels secure and happy crated without being able to see other dogs- around home, in the car, or out and about. Barring any special issues after about 7 months, they are treated pretty much like my adult dogs are and are integrated fully into "the pack".

[NancyO]

Robin wrote

 

But Zac still ended up *really* bonded to me

That's the boy for you

 

I usually only put them on sheep once a month and will stop if they need to have any type of pressure put on them, ie grippers or really tight on sheep, so that they will need pushing out.

 

We've had each of the pups out in the field (individually) with Ben being used to keep them out of the corners so the sheep wouldn't face off the pups. They were chasing after them, of course couldn't catch them, but weren't doing any harm either.

 

Robin, how do you think putting the pups on sheep every week helped?

 

Nancy O

[NancyO]

Laurie,

 

thanks for your information! All puppies have limited interaction with the adult dogs. Most of thier interaction with the adults occurs at the farm when I'm walking everyone or running them with the lawn tractor.

 

The pups are currently crated upstairs in separate crates where they can't see each other.

 

Nancy O

[Shoofly]

That was our alone time.

 

I dunno, but sheep are really powerful attractants/rewards/whatever, and being out there with them working together just seems like a good thing. I have to admit, they were easy pups to just put on and let balance and such, not really chasing and gripping, so i was part of the picture early on. And my sheep behaved very well with them as well.

[juliepoudrier]

Thanks for a timely topic Nancy! Reading the responses with interest, since it seems I will be raising two at once as well....

 

J.

[kelpiegirl]

Nancy:

When I die, can I come back as one of your dogs??!!

What a great life.

 

Julie

[juliepoudrier]

Nancy,

When I read your post about running the dogs with the lawn tractor, I had visions of you on a souped up Tim Taylor-esque monster going at high rates of speed! Thanks for the laugh, even if not intended.

 

My pups are at the stage (just about 8 weeks) that when the sheep see them out in the yard,(since the sheep are allowed out of the fenced area to graze while I'm home) the sheep run like hell (I guess they figure that's the best option since they have no real idea what those little creatures *are*, well, and these are mostly cheviots, which explains a lot). The pups,if they notice the sheep at all, may start to give chase, but it's no contest in the speed department and the pups lose interest once they can't see the sheep for the tall grass. The chickens, however, are another story....

 

I have been taking Lark to sheep since she was about 4 months old. Maybe once or twice a week, and with Twist at first to do the same thing Ben's doing for you. I'm not putting any training pressure on her, just letting her go around and bring sheep. I did discover last night when I let her bring the whole flock up that she is more willing to pace herself when she's working the whole flock (~35-40 sheep) as opposed to the rams and wethers (9 sheep). The latter must be brought at Mach 5, even if it running through them because they're going too SLOW! So for the time being I think she'll work only large groups.

 

J.

[NancyO]

The lawn tractor is a very very old sears lawn tractor, that will hopefully start when cranked over, or maybe not. But the dogs can be paced at a trot with it.(Robin, would have loved to buy your ATV, but really couldn't justify it)

 

I have a 35 hp real tractor with front end loader, but won't use it with the dogs around, unless it's just one dog and I have to move some sheep before I mow. But if I have to do anything that requires frequent backing up such as mucking out the run in shed area or putting out large bales of hay, all dogs are put away, or at least in another field.

 

These pups, at 7 weeks, were herding chickens, not chasing. I found it cute, but then I don't have chickens myself.

 

I always like to hear what people do with pups on stock, the frequency, number of sheep etc.

 

Nancy O

[Shoofly]

Ohhhhh Nancy, we could work something out! I bet you'd be surprised how much you'd love having an ATV. Best thing i ever bought. I run the dogs with it, train from it, carry hay on it, put a cart behind it to haul stuff, use it constantly. I think Nick was telling you he wants one since he did so well in Canada and brought you all those canadian dolars home.

[NancyO]

Yup, Nick's winnings would pay for the ATV with some leftover for gas.

 

But the ATV is a 2WD, and we get snow up here! Don't think it will go in the snow. Then there would be the issue of getting it up to PA.

 

Nancy O