pickled pete Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 After considerable research as to what breed I wanted, I am 3 weeks into ownership of a 3 month old male BC. I wanted a buddy and a cattle helper, certainly do have the best buddy and am anxious to find out someday about the cattle helper. Question is: can he become too much a pet to be a good working dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyjabo Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Watch the silly stuff and you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I went from spoiler to overcontroller and I'm going back the other way now. Jack Knox gave me one key a couple of months ago after giving me a public verbal "spanking" for carrying Ann to the round pen - because I was scared of what she'd do if I walked her out there. Basically what I learned was that puppyhood is the time for pup to learn to mind you. That means they should be interested at all times in what you are doing. If you walk off, pup should follow, no matter how interesting something is in the other direction. Not because you told them to heel, not because they are attached on a leash, but because they think you are the most interesting thing in the world and because they've chosen to follow you. Once pup is in the habit of minding you and wondering what you want all the time, your first introduction to stock will be neither a huge battle to get pup's attention, nor an obedience lesson. I've tried it both ways (with the same dog, even) and I'm having MUCH more fun now that I'm feeling out this approach. So are my dogs, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 LMAO... seems us sports people had it right all along then, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grscott Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Originally posted by Rebecca, Irena Farm:I went from spoiler to overcontroller and I'm going back the other way now. Jack Knox gave me one key a couple of months ago after giving me a public verbal "spanking" for carrying Ann to the round pen - because I was scared of what she'd do if I walked her out there. But it was a friendly "spanking", wasn't it. That's just one of the good things about Jack Knox. He figures you've paid your $180 - $200, so he's going to try to tell you what you NEED to hear, not what you WANT to hear. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyjabo Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 LMAO... seems us sports people had it right all along then, eh? [Razz] Ummmm... I meant "watch" as is not letting it happen. Not sit back and enjoy it Just to be clear-- I think alot of Sport people let that happen-- but its not because they are doing sports with the dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 wasn't responding to your post Karen, as I don't know your definition of "silly stuff". Was responding to Becca's post, but was too lazy to copy/paste. To elaborate, sports people have always been of the mind of creating a relationship with the dog first and asking for (informal) obedience amidst all distractions. I've listened to some herding/working trainers over the years describe their training philosophies where they'd just let the pup grow up with little guidance until put on stock. I've never agreed with that (and I also don't own a farm or "work" my dogs with any regularity), but to each their own. If it works for you, rock on. Yes there are good and bad trainers everywhere, be it sports or herding or pet, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I'd rather be chastised by Jack than complimented by many others, that's for sure. He lays into me hard because he knows I'll take it. And of course he's very good-natured about it. I wish I had a picture of him roaring down the field (but with a big grin), waving his stick at the handler who was getting in the way of her dog, yet again. Both a great sense of humor and his passion to let the dogs talent shine, evident there. Laura, what Jack was addressing with me specifically was OVERcontrolling. Ann had plenty of "obedience" but it all went out the window around stock because I'd never given her the freedom to choose the right thing. Ann grew up with me 24/7. rode in the car with me on my job, slept on the bed and all that, so the interaction was not lacking. My nagging frustrated her, however. I can't agree that this idea is unique to sports trainers. I've had working trainers (including Karen) try to hammer this concept into my head for as long as I've worked stock, and I see it propounded in most of the training books I've read (I've never seen it recommended to raise a pup in a vacuum). It just took this particular context for me to see "that bit" that I was missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyjabo Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Sorry I thought you were tweaking me(I gave someone the perfect opportunity). So I tweaked back---- all in fun. I think silly stuff is jumping around acting silly-- Some people think its cute-- I find it irritating and counter productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I never said this idea was unique to ANY trainer, be it sport or working or pet. Perhaps I misunderstood how you told me you raised your pups. Glad Jack can get through to ya. -L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyjabo Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by rtphokie:I never said this idea was unique to ANY trainer, be it sport or working or pet. Perhaps I misunderstood how you told me you raised your pups. Glad Jack can get through to ya. -L i am completely lost by your posts ---- you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder and I can't for the life of me follow it - or identify the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 you're reading WAY too much into my posts then...LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I'm lost too, Killer H. It must be some private thing between Laura and Becca. As long as I've known Jack Knox -- more than 15 years -- he has emphasized the importance of how you raise your pup and the relationship you develop with it. And among working trainers he is far from unique in holding that view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Beats me! Is there a smiley for a puzzled shrug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickled pete Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 You think you all have lost me?? All I asked was if I could ruin a potentially good cattle dog by making him too much of a pet. I think I hear an answer in there; that if I'm smart enough to mark a difference in him between work and play, we'll be fine?!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Sorry 'bout that - here's Karen's first post (KillerH) - that covers it in a nutshell. Watch the silly stuff and you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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