Crawford Dogs Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 My 13 month old bc Loki has the such a curly coat that the fur actually stands up about 3 inches on his back giving him a camel hump. I know that his sire has some loose curls but since he is shaved every spring I thought that the curls were from the shaving. Does anyone know the mode of inheritance of these curls? Although Loki and several siblings have big loose curls one of his brother had tight curls down his back (kind of like a poodle). Where are these curls coming from? Is it polygenic? Recessive? Love some answers! Here is picture showing some of his curls although not very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 No help on the inheritance but I do wonder if this is still not a mature adult coat and will fall flat with time and undercoat development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Ohhh, you've never seen Lee with his full coat...thick, long and heavy, if I recall correctly I don't think it curls but rather waves at full length, and yes more of a curl when he is growing his coat back after being shaved. It actually looks like Loki has a finer hair coat from his dam, which I suspect would give you the looser curls vs. the waves. Doesn't his dam have curls on her rump? Ecko, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I have no idea how it's inherited, but I don't doubt that it is ... there was a very well known breeder of border collies in our area and her dogs were very typey and recognizable when you saw them - most of them were curly. She died about 10 years ago, and there aren't many of her dogs left anymore, but I had at least one in rescue and he was literally curly ... not wavy, but curly. The local trial people recognized him as one of her dogs upon sight. I've had lots and lots of dogs come through with varying degrees of wave in their coat, some more than others. They seem to have more coat than the average dog, a real PITA when it comes to keeping them clean in the mud ;-) RDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Ohhh, you've never seen Lee with his full coat...thick, long and heavy, if I recall correctly I don't think it curls but rather waves at full length, and yes more of a curl when he is growing his coat back after being shaved. It actually looks like Loki has a finer hair coat from his dam, which I suspect would give you the looser curls vs. the waves. Doesn't his dam have curls on her rump? Ecko, right? Wow! How'd you recognize that Loki was out of Ecko and Lee? I've only seen Lee a couple times and he didn't have a particularly long coat either time. I've always thought that Loki was a testosterone-infused version of his grandma Angel and have been a bit suprised by the curls. Ecko has a few curls on her rump but not much and of course, her hair is about half the length of Loki's. Do you have any pictures of Lee with a full coat? I'd love to see what he looks like pre-shave. I must admit that I got a pup purely because it was an Angel grandson and wanted one of that line, beyond researching health checks online I paid no attention to the sire's side. He had health checks, his ancestors and cousins had health checks, he works, and that's about all I cared about. Loki has the temperment, personality, and A LOT more herding ability than I expected. I'm sure that many people will be saying, "great dog, shame about the handler." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Linc as a puppy: Linc at about 9 months: Linc as an adult (photo by Dan King): His coat has done little to flatten out. I call him bustle-butt. Sometimes his curls get REALLY tight... like after he's been swimming. I wish my curls were as pretty as his... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Silly girl, (LOL), I know who you are, and I know you purchased one of Mary's pups and I was thinking it was Ecko who had the pups, the littermates to Ecko are both smooth coated. Ecko is what I would refer to as a medium coat and has that whispy look to her coat that your dog has, but I think his will be fuller due to the Lee influence. As far as pictures of Lee in a full coat, no I don't have any, I know that I've seen him with a full or nearly full coat, but yes typically John shaves him before the June trials, right now he has quite a bit of hair, I saw him Saturday down in Arkansas. First time I saw him shaved was at Tingley when he was around a year old, looked like a big red Chinese Crested. As far as handler, it's only ashame about the handler if you don't take control of the dog and allow him to run you over. Lee is very biddable and trainable, and so is Ecko, you should be fine so long as you don't allow the dog to run the show and only follow his instincts rather then follow your direction while using his instincts. Are you coming to Bob's this weekend, he will be talking alot about that on Saturday. Speaking of Lee, I can't recall but is Lee a Bryn x Mick? Bryn was down in AR too, I don't see Mick at the trials anymore, but for some reason I'm thinking he is pretty heavy coated too, doesn't he go back to Moo and the old Lockeye lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 As far as pictures of Lee in a full coat, no I don't have any, I know that I've seen him with a full or nearly full coat, but yes typically John shaves him before the June trials, right now he has quite a bit of hair, I saw him Saturday down in Arkansas. First time I saw him shaved was at Tingley when he was around a year old, looked like a big red Chinese Crested. As far as handler, it's only ashame about the handler if you don't take control of the dog and allow him to run you over. Lee is very biddable and trainable, and so is Ecko, you should be fine so long as you don't allow the dog to run the show and only follow his instincts rather then follow your direction while using his instincts. Are you coming to Bob's this weekend, he will be talking alot about that on Saturday. Speaking of Lee, I can't recall but is Lee a Bryn x Mick? Bryn was down in AR too, I don't see Mick at the trials anymore, but for some reason I'm thinking he is pretty heavy coated too, doesn't he go back to Moo and the old Lockeye lines? Lol! Chinese Crested. Sadly, I'm skipping the Bob Johnson clinic- I've injured myself somehow. I am absoluelty amazed you remembered who got what pups, I only know cuz I got one. Lee is out of Bryn and Kathy Knox's Jake (2005 Reserve champion I believe). There's a full pedigree at my website (aka brag board) at http://www.freewebs.com/bethiejean/pedigrees.htm Since Bryn and Mick are full siblings I'd never touch a pup out of them- goodness knows what recessives would show up! Loki is well controlled but certainly has his own ideas! Went to Mary's to work stock a few weeks ago and he kept his down till sent and downed well for me at balance points. Now, have to ask him to do the harder stuff this summmer. Mary was pleased with him so I suspect I'm on the right track. Loki's well trained, he's doing agility flatwork (no jumps till 18 months) and just got certified as a therapy dog. Now if only I can find a picture of Lee with hair and explain to Loki that intact boys don't need to smell every female around or wee on indoor plants at the vets. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 His coat has done little to flatten out. I call him bustle-butt. Sometimes his curls get REALLY tight... like after he's been swimming. I wish my curls were as pretty as his... Ha ha! I wonder if Loki will look similar when he gets his full adult coat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I didn't realize that Bryn and Mick were siblings, that makes Bryn a Moo daughter? Right on with the recessives showing up, but don't forget that it could also bring out and set alot of good dominent genes. I think that if a open handler did it that had been breeding the line successfully for many years with little to no health problme a pup from him of that mating such as that would not bother me if I liked both dogs. Tony McCallum mentioned at his clinic when talking about line breeding, if you have a female from a proven healthy line the best way to ensure that the dog produces healthy pups would be to breed her to her brother, by outcrossing to a different line you run a higher risk of bringing out health issues. Anyway, that was something he told us to ponder... As far as the sniffing the girls and peeing on the plants, that's up to you to get that message relayed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Yeah, Bryn is out of Maid and Moo. I don't know if she's from the same litter as Mick or not but they have the same parents. She isn't curly so maybe Lee got the curlies from Kathy Knox's Jake? I do wish I knew the inheritance pattern, it makes predicting planned litters so much more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Do you know how old your dogs sire was when he ran in his first Nursery trial and how old he was when he competed at his first National Finals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Do you know how old your dogs sire was when he ran in his first Nursery trial and how old he was when he competed at his first National Finals? I know Lee was trialing at 8 months and won the Iowa state fair at 13 months (1st place on cattle I believe) in 2009. No clue otherwise and I don't actually know when he did national finals although I know he has, nor do I know how he did. Any questions on Ecko I might be able to answer though. Sadly, I've only met John twice for a few minutes and I don't think he's the talkative type so he's never said much beyond that he's a good trial dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceredwyn Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Our old girly, Belle, has poodle-like curls all over. She was a puppy mill girl, so we have no idea who her parents were (the mill surrendered Belle to rescue, but not her papers). She's almost 13 and we've had her since she turned 9. She's been trimmed down for summer several times, but the curls always come back. The puppies aren't Belle's -- just had them for a day on their way to rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Our old girly, Belle, has poodle-like curls all over. Loki's brother Timber has poodle curls all over his back like Belle's. Interesting to see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.