Variety is the spice . .

[kajarrel]

Yesterday a friend of mine asked us to help out with some teenage alpacas she's boarding. She got them about 1 month ago and hasn't been able to catch them to take off their halters or walk them (which is part of the deal she has with the owner). Wasn't really quite sure what to expect, but I took two of my dogs to help out.

 

Alpacas don't flock like sheep. When they were pushed, they'd split and run around/at the dogs (or us - the weak links) rather than away from the dogs. My friend's set-up is a little difficult because the back of the barn, where she wanted them to go, abuts at the middle of the fenceline so there wasn't really a barrier that we could hold/move them against. Her guard dog has also been keeping the alpacas away from the barn, where the dog food is located, since they arrived.

 

Anyways, we did get them in the barn - but it took alot of small moves, with the dogs patiently holding the alpacas from moving in the wrong direction and then moving forward when they'd turn in the direction we wanted. I don't usually use a crook, but found it really helpful in this case to turn their heads when we finally got to the gate.

 

I don't do a lot of training with the dogs now - just don't have the time - but I thought this was a great experience for them and me (as a handler). It was very different from herding sheep (they really got a workout covering the animals and had to be be extremely patient) and it was so much fun watching them figure out (read) the alpacas.

 

Anyone have alpacas? How do you move them? Do you use your dogs? Were my observations accurate? Any thoughts on using less "affiliative" animals to hone skills?

 

Kim

[kelpiegirl]

I think it is great that you allowed your dogs the challenge into uncharted territory, and they used their brains to figure out the best way to move them

I'm thinking the best way to move those guys would be a rope attaching them to eachother and two dogs flanking

 

Julie

[kajarrel]

The problem was that my friend couldn't get close enough to them to get a rope around them. She actually thought about trying to lasso them (probably earlier when she, her dad and his girlfriend were running around trying to tackle them), but wasn't sure about whether or not this would hurt their necks. Here's a picture of the little pia's she sent me yesterday --

 

 

Kim

[JBP]

Don't have any experience with alpacas but I have worked with llamas. I have had to rope a few, but I heeled them (caught their feet) instead of heading them--very easy to damage the trachea. I would keep working with the dog (and a fence line), sounds like that worked--even though it took a little extra time.

 

Attach a plastic grocery bag to your crook and waving it at the appropriate time will keep you (the people) from being the weak link.

 

Oh, and let us watch the video after you do it again

[kajarrel]

I think the video would be X-rated for language!

 

Kim

[kimkathan]

I have an alpace in with my sheep, and have had experience with working them on an alpaca farm. At the farm they used 2 working wands (one in each hand)and applied the pressure to them by shiffting from side to side as they walked along. I also used a dog up there, but only on certain groups. Unbread females and the geldings worked fine with the dogs, but only after they knew what they were, otherwise they just bolted around the dog, like you said. The breeding males and bred females or the moms, would actually go after the dog in an attack mode. The male I have in with my sheep is an intact male, but since he sees my dog every day, he trust her, and will move with the rest of the flock with no problem. If someone else comes over to work sheep though, we have to put him in the back stall of the barn, as he will go after strange dogs and try to climb over the gate to get with HIS sheep. He's very protective of the flock, for example last winter, we had 2 husky's from down the road, climb over a snowbank and jump into the sheep pen. The alpace gathered all the sheep up, took them to the barn, stood in the door way, and eventually ripped off the ear of one of the dogs trying to get in. Alpaca's aren't large animals, and all in all are on the quiet side, but when they get mad, look out.

 

My advice would be, if the boys didn't run at the dogs, just keep aclimating them, work off them at a bit of a distance as you would a flighter sheep, and pull wider flanks.

[kimkathan]

Also, on the note of roping them. Yes, if you were to rope them around the neck and they were to pull on it, there is a very good chance of them breaking their neck. What I've used in the past is to leave a very short lead (around 3-4 inches) on the bottom snap of their halters. Also, a way of training the alpaca to tolerate being handled is to take a bicycle inner tube, loop it around a fence post (not the fiberglass type) and hook them with a snap to the tube. work on rubbing them down, rubbing their ear moving down their neck and body, and everytime they try to jerk or flair, just step back and let them do it. The tube has enough give to it that they can't hurt themselves. Once they've had their moment, continue. Get them to understand that people aren't a negative thing, and that they don't stop what they're doing when they (the alpaca)act up. At the end, give them a treat (Grain, apple, whatever)

[juliepoudrier]

A question totally unrelated to moving alpacas with dogs. Kim J., the alpacas have obviously been sheared recently, yet they are left with a "topknot" and a bushy tail. Why is that?

 

J.

[kajarrel]

I have NO idea - I'll have to ask my friend. I thought it was kinda cute. Maybe the "other Kim" knows . . .

 

Kim (Jarrell)

[kimkathan]

It all depends on who does it. Alot of alpaca people will shear the "neck and chest" every other year, as the fleece gathers chaff there and it's not worth as much. I sheer the neck every year because I think it looks dumb not to. The top knot is to help protect their eyes from the sun and from flys(Kind of like the tassles people put on their horse halters). If you ever see one, they have the biggest, most beautiful dark eyes and lashes, but because of the size they take in alot of sunlight even with their pupils constricted, the fiber provides some filtration so that it's not so direct. I vary the look every year. Last year we left a bit longer back for a mullet look, this year it's more like the early Beetles, just a way to have fun with it.

[kimkathan]

I forgot to add, the tail is kind of the same for flys, and if it wern't fluffy, it looks like a doberman tail. Not real attractive on such an animal.

[juliepoudrier]

Thanks Kim K for the great explanation. I love the idea of having fun with the alpaca hairdo!

 

J.

[kajarrel]

Thanks for all the great tips! This has been an interesting experience.

 

Kim

[Wayne]

"the alpacas have obviously been sheared recently, yet they are left with a "topknot" and a bushy tail. Why is that?"

 

Are they also poodle owners?

[bcnewe2]

Kim

Do you have any problems with having an intact male in with your sheep? I know you can't do that with a llama, or at least I couldn't.

Thanks

Kristen

ps. love the hair cuts! Since I have hair sheep I don't own any shearing devise, so I use a sissors to trim my llama. I was a beautician in a former life so he always gets a stylish do.

[kimkathan]

I've had him in with the sheep for going on 5 years now, and have had no problems. Since he knows my dogs, I have no problems working him in with the sheep (actually it's more like moving the sheep to where I need them and then he follows at times. It's more important to keep the sheep together and then worry about him) I never have let others work him here with the sheep, mainly because I'm worried that he'd try to go after them like he did the huskeys. What kind of problems were you having with keeping an intact llama? Llamas do have a different temperment than alpacas. They seem to be more intense and tempermental. They only time I've ever had an alpaca spit was when we were graining them, and someone was trying to stick their nose where it didn't belong. Other wise, even when vetting them, their fine.

[bcnewe2]

My gelding llama is great with his sheep. He knows the dif. between a dog that we work sheep with compared to a stray or one intent on doing harm to his flock. The problem I had with putting him in with sheep when he was intact was that he was very amorous with the ewes. He almost squished a young ewe trying to breed her. I had to roll him off her and she looked like she had been run over by a truck. She was OK, but after that I kept them apart till I had him fixed. We just put in a new ram (new to the llama too) so I didn't let him in with his flock till about a week. Now things are smooth sailing for both.

My llama has never spit on anything but another llama, except once I had a rescue/foster dog I was working (one of the first red bc's I've had on my sheep) and Al (the llama) didn't like this particular dog so spit on him. He will watch all new dogs work for the first few times then decide if they are a threat or not and act accordingly. I do not let other people work with the llama in the same field, but I work my sheep all the time with him in with the sheep. He either lets the sheep hide under him, in that case the dogs have to work under and around him and he doesn?t' mind a bit. Or he goes over any lays down to watch the action.

I have an 8 month puppy right now that is just starting to experience sheep, she is fascinated with the llama and will try to work him too. He will take so much from her then he runs her off. I don't work her with the sheep when Al is around but she finds him out in the barn when we're doing chores. I can tell he knows the difference between a serious threat and just a disobedient puppy.

I love my llama and can hear coyotes close but have yet to have any problems with any critters. The loose neighborhood dogs are my biggest problem and haven't had a problem with them for the past few years. They seem to cross the street to the other side when walking down the road infront of our place.