geonni banner Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 http://www.myvideo.de/watch/4931548/Tobie It's my understanding that Border Collies should not be used on horses. What say you who have both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 It doesn't look to me like the dogs are working the horse. I guess at one point one dog does get a little close, but mostly it looks like the dogs are just there in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 It looked to me like they might be using the dogs to actually keep the horse moving, but that kicking you see at the beginning is the reason you're taking a big chance letting a dog work a horse. If that kick had connected, the dog would like be seriously injured. Later you see the dog working rather close. Maybe the horse is good-natured and wouldn't (so the humans think) actually deliberately hurt a dog (the woman I showed for used to send her Aussies out after the horses, but fortunately the horses considered it a game and "pulled their punches"). There's a reason equines are sometimes used as livestock guardians after all.... J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona Howard Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Julies right. Horses are dangerous. I kept my gelding in with my flock of sheep in Arizona and he was hell on coyotes. I have always kept my dogs and horses seperate. Even a "playfull" kick from a horse can kill a dog in an instant. A lot of BC's are worked WITH horses but not ON horses. Dogs can be taught to respect a horse when you are using both to work a flock. When the horse is not saddled a dog has no business interacting with it. Just like people your usually mellow gelding can be having a "bad day" with disasterous results for your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 My gelding, Cimarron, hated dogs of any sort, with a passion. He didn't just try to kick them, if they got in his paddock, he wanted death! I had this little dachshund at the time, and would on occasion, take her with me when I rode. The first time out I kept feeling Cimarrons back end sort of jiggle up. Couldn't figure out why till I watched. He was trying to kick my dog with out me knowing! But my dog was so low to the ground that by the time he got his leg up to kick, he had already cleared the dogs head! Schultz was oblivious, Cimarron was frustrated, I was amused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTDogs Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Julies right. Horses are dangerous. I kept my gelding in with my flock of sheep in Arizona and he was hell on coyotes. What's the difference between horses & cattle with regard to working them with dogs? I have always heard that horses should never be worked with dogs. It is obvious they are dangerous (just look how the deer pummeled the poor dog in the other thread & it is maybe 25% of a horses weight) but what things make them more dangerous than cattle? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 We do use horses with dogs frequently out here--most trials are set on horseback with dogs, for instance. Herding horses with dogs is dangerous, but using dogs with horses is very common. Mona, are you saying the difference is that there needs to be a person riding the horse? I guess that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennkopp Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 What's the difference between horses & cattle with regard to working them with dogs? I have always heard that horses should never be worked with dogs. It is obvious they are dangerous (just look how the deer pummeled the poor dog in the other thread & it is maybe 25% of a horses weight) but what things make them more dangerous than cattle? Just curious. Horse hooves are alot harder than cow hooves. Also, horses may stomp with their front hooves, which is pretty unlikely with cattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 I have horses and my Border Collies are not allowed to herd them whatsoever. No exception. Aside from the fact, the horse can kill them...another reason is if they set using horses at trials or if I am on a trial ride, I do not want my dogs nipping at any horse. Can you image if the dog nipped a horse on the trial of someone that was riding past you and they got thrown? Or at the trial, they nipped the setout perosn's horse? They learn quickly to ignore the horses and now, they can gather the sheep with the horse and ignore the horse. I know of several people who let their dogs loose to herd the horses.....that is a recipe for diaster.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 I also have horses, ad the bc´s will need to learn to work with them rounding up sheep, but never "on" them. I know of too many dogs here who lost eyes to horses (and of one that lost it´s tail...), and they are all border collies. By the way, I don´t have the impression the horse is being worked by the dogs in this vid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 I can't add to the wisdom of what was happening in that video but holy cow that's a gorgeous horse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTDogs Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Yeah the Gypsy Vanner (?) is a gorgeous horse. This one seems awfully "drafty" to me. A little on the stocky side I think. At first, until the dogs & the person provided a size reference, I thought he was super flashy Clydesdale. Perhaps this is the way the breed is?? I am horse sub-novice- I know nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Beautiful horse but a dangerous activity for the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Yeah the Gypsy Vanner (?) is a gorgeous horse. This one seems awfully "drafty" to me. A little on the stocky side I think. At first, until the dogs & the person provided a size reference, I thought he was super flashy Clydesdale. Perhaps this is the way the breed is?? I am horse sub-novice- I know nothing. Yup. They are drafty. But smallish. "Ideal height" is 14 hands 2 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 I thought the horse in the original video was a Clydesdale. Doesn't look like the typical Vanner photos I've seen. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Nope. He's a Gypsy Cob. Gypsy Vanner is a name coined for the Colored Cob or Gypsy Cob by an American importer who makes mega-bucks importing them and trying to make them into the next "sexy" horse fad. (It's working, too.) Sort of like the AKC and Border Collies. Seems like Americans like their Cobs a bit higher on the leg and slimmer. And in flashy colors. Not like the steady solid horse the gypsies developed from draft breeds, pony breeds and whatever else "went" well. Hmmm. Sort of like the working Border Collie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Even though most of the caption below is in German, it says that it's a Gypsy Vanner stallion (Irish Tinkerhengst). Lovely horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Who reads captions? lol! He seemed too big to be a cob, at least as I understand a cob.... J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTDogs Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 I thought the horse in the original video was a Clydesdale. Doesn't look like the typical Vanner photos I've seen. J. LOL! So I am not alone. I finally read the caption AFTER I saw the person standing by & he seemed way small for a clydesdale...I saw the Budweiser Clydesdales once as a kid & they are HUGE The pix I saw of the Gypsy Vanner didn't seem that bulky either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Well, yeah, and obviously I am more than a bit slow today because certainly he dwarves neither the dogs nor the human, so who knows what I was thinking when I watched it this morning? Must've been lack of sleep making me dotty.... J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 ACK! If that was my dog, s/he'd be in SO much trouble! I don't care if he thinks he's only playing, that nonsense is one of the biggest NO's in my entire universe! This sort of behavior terrifies me. One kick, one flash of the hoof, and that dog has a shattered skull or broken bones. I've seen enough dogs kicked and known of dogs killed, that I won't take a chance with a dog messing around horses. Cindy, the thing with cows vs horses is that horses are faster and not only kick, but also strike and bite. If sufficiently annoyed, some will run a dog down to trample it. (Years ago, I set a gelding I was riding to chase a coyote out of the first calf heifers: he loved it and stopped only when the coyote dove through a fence.) Mules are worse, but horses are not to be trifled with. It only takes an instant ... Cheers ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTDogs Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Cindy, the thing with cows vs horses is that horses are faster and not only kick, but also strike and bite. If sufficiently annoyed, some will run a dog down to trample it. (Years ago, I set a gelding I was riding to chase a coyote out of the first calf heifers: he loved it and stopped only when the coyote dove through a fence.) Mules are worse, but horses are not to be trifled with. It only takes an instant ... Cheers ~ Gloria Oh okay thanks. That's kinda what I thought & after seeing the deer in the other thread I don't have to imagine how bad it would be for a dog. I remember treating several dogs (at the ER) for (accidental) horse kicks over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njnovice Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Oh okay thanks. That's kinda what I thought & after seeing the deer in the other thread I don't have to imagine how bad it would be for a dog. I remember treating several dogs (at the ER) for (accidental) horse kicks over the years. Mick's only been around horses a few times, but he has a healthy fear of them and I'm fine with that. I was pretty shocked by the deer in that video. My guys have both come very close to catching deer. The ones at my old house were freakishly tame, and would literally graze just outside Mick's reach. Although, once one did run straight through the yard and Mick missed catching her by inches. He flipped himself over when he hit the end of the chain. Another time, a particulary not bright deer went walking straight up to Sinead (as in about 5' away from her). She looked at it, and then it kind of clicked in her head, and she took off after it. Nearly got the deer, but fortunately, she's good about staying in the yard and she stopped when she hit the edge of the property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Welll, WRT deer, cattle, etc., when young are involved you can bet that the mama is going to get violent. But most of the time, deer, cattle, etc., would move off a dog (flight). Fight kicks in when baby animals need to be protected. As others have said, horses (and other equines) are more inclined to go on the attack for no particular reason (i.e., not protecting fawns or calves). J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 ACK! If that was my dog, s/he'd be in SO much trouble! I don't care if he thinks he's only playing, that nonsense is one of the biggest NO's in my entire universe! This sort of behavior terrifies me. One kick, one flash of the hoof, and that dog has a shattered skull or broken bones. I've seen enough dogs kicked and known of dogs killed, that I won't take a chance with a dog messing around horses. Exactly. Folks may think the dog doesn't look like it's working, but on more than one occasion it circles behind the horse, well within kicking distance (the dog appears to think it's working). If the owners weren't actively allowing the dogs to work, then thay should at least have been stopping the behavior of the one dog, which is indeed a recipe for disaster. And as nice as that stallion might be, he's still a stallion.... J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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