Onix Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 I just got a 7 wk border pup but I am having some problems with walking him to go potty with a leash. I have a choke collar on him but I do not pull hard at all. He seems to freeze and maybe he doesnt like it. Should I continue using the choke collar in respect for training methods or should I change collars?? I was also walking him (one day) with a leash (the one good day) and he stepped in front of me. I didnt see him and accidently stepped on his foot. He now wont walk with a leash. My next question is how to break that and make him more comfortable? :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan's Mom Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Hopefully someone of more authority will answer this questions but here is my opinion. To go potty, I would use a flat collar since you aren't actually doing obedience exercises with him. If he doesn't like the choke collar, he may be thinking more about that then going to the potty. Also, some border collies are rather soft and don't take well to choke collars. I use a prong collar occasionally, but my dog works well with this collar and needs very little correction when in use. Hope this helps somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 8 weeks is a little too young to have a choke collar on a dog. I would suggest using a flat collar. I would also start putting the collar and leash on the puppy and let him drag it around the house. It takes time for some dogs to get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onix Posted October 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 I changed the displayed name to the name of my pup. Thank you for replying and I'll try your suggestions. I read alot of books about training border pups and I used to have one before when I was growing up but Its been a while. I forgot how much training and care it requires but it is alot of fun. I also put him in his crate sometimes for an half hour to an hour to break him from crying in the crate but he still does cry. It has been 4 days but I read that sometimes it takes a week or two. What have your experieces taught you and are there any tricks of the trade anyone can give me? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan's Mom Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Keegan only cried in his crate during the night and that lasted for about one-two weeks. We would put him the crate during the day when he needed a break and so did we...he would just never lie down and go to sleep. Eventually, after giving him treats in his crate and putting some nylabones in there with him (something he can't eat or get caught in his airways)he got used to his crate and liked to sleep in there. For us, it was a little bit easier because my husband is without work and is home with him most of the day, so we had a lot of one-on-one time with him and he wasn't in his crate a whole lot during the day...like I said only for naps. Be patient, the first week seemed like a month for me since all I had prior was kittens. As for the walking bit...we only took Keegan on walk to the end of the sidewalk and back, what I mean to say is very short walks. You might want to try treats to get him to walk on the leash...giving him treats before you put it on, after you put it on, after he takes a step, and work your way up from there. Good luck and enjoy!!!! Even though the first week seemed like a month, I wouldn't trade it for anything!!! Oh, I guess I should also state that Keegan did not go to a prong collar until over a year old. I would try training with a flat collar until you really think he needs another method for walking nicely on lead then I would go to a gentle leader before a choke collar. The gentle leader hooks around the snout and can be bought at pet supply stores...mine is red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 There was a thread on crating recently. I would suggest doing a search. 1. feed dog in crate 2. give treats for going in crate 3. cover crate 4. worse comes to worse, when crate covered, give a bang when the whining starts--not the potty whine, just whining for no reason. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skd Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Hi there, Choke, slip, or training collars should never be used for a puppy this age. Frankly, I never use any of these devices on my several dogs, ever. A good rule is to try it on your bare upper arm before you use it on a dog. A choke is meant to slip up tight to the neck, and to pinch a bit of skin, delivering a painful correction. Puppies don't need to be painfully corrected when they are toddling around getting used to the routine of pottying on lead and learning about the world. A flat collar and NO tension on the lead will allow him to explore, potty, and learn good things about the world. JMO. Sheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Well said, Sheryl and others. This is a wee baby we're talking about here. In Australia at 7 weeks he would still be with his mom. As far as the leash goes, I would just let him wear it (on a flat collar) around the house and the yard (if it's fenced) without you on the other end for a while. You could start picking it up and walking him to his dinner bowl, so he thinks the leash is pretty cool. Is your vet OK with him going for a walk outside the property at this young age? Here we tend to limit outside walks to areas where only vaccinated dogs/pups are likely to have been. At this age, your main job is to help him learn the basic rules of your household - hopefully by rewarding the things he does that you want, and learn that interacting nicely with other people and dogs is fun - puppy school or puppy kinder is great for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 I just saw this thread. Please DO NOT put a training collar on your puppy until it is at least five to six months old. There is simply no reason for it. The suggestions of allowing him to drag a leash from a flat collar (a wider one is better than a very narrow one) are excellent. Also letting him drag a longer cord (puppy version of a long line) when you have him outside playing is good. He may seem pretty easy to catch now but it won't be long before he's dashing about like a wild thing. You can step on the cord and either go get him or encourage him to come in to you and that way he will NEVER learn that he can run from you. Do all your preliminary training (sit, down, come etc.) at this age with treats and toys and try to keep it positive. If you have to correct him for things only use "no" for things that you NEVER want him to do, such as biting, chewing inappropriate objects etc. All other things are classified as mistakes at this point and a simple "uh, uh" and show him again what you want is the way to go. Uh, uh is much softer and usually more than enough of a correction for a puppy this young. I agree with Barb, find a good puppy kindergarten class to get you started. If you start his training correctly now your chances of having to deal with more serious behavior problems later are minimal. A choke is meant to slip up tight to the neck, and to pinch a bit of skin, delivering a painful correction.I have to disagree with this statement. When the "choke" collar is fitted properly and used properly there is no pain involved. It tightens rapidly and releases rapidly without pinching. When showing owners how to use it I always show them on my arm first and if they aren't grasping it I put it on their arm. I have yet to hear someone say I hurt them. I have a very fine tiny collar (never use a fine collar on any dog) that has been jerked and released on my upper arm (to similating a proper fit) repeatedly. The only time pain is involved is when a collar is improperly fitted or pulled tight without being released. A handler error not a collar problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrider Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 For a person new to dog training, I would strongly recommend using a harness for a puppy this young. This is safer, and will not predispose any bad collar phobias and resentments. I know the harness will not last long with the pup growing to larger sizes, but it will create a better attitude between pup and owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onix Posted October 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Thank you all for your input(s). Last night was the first night he didnt cry in his crate with the exception of one time he really needed to do both numbers but he let me and my fiance sleep all night. I was truly proud of him. He has only been in the crate 4 days. I stopped using a leash and he is much better but I will introduce him to the leash starting today. I have him practicing the sit and down command and he comes to me while i call him when we are outside. I did notice last night he was in a very playful mood and I picked him up to go back in and he started to squirm and snapped at me. Not only once but twice. I immediately grabbed his nozzle and said in a firmly way, NO! he stopped and was good afterwards. Thank you for all your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skd Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>A choke is meant to slip up tight to the neck, and to pinch a bit of skin, delivering a painful correction. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>I have to disagree with this statement. When the "choke" collar is fitted properly and used properly there is no pain involved. I think this may be a problem of semantics. By "choke" I was referring to a slip chain type of training collar. I have demonstrated these on my upper arm, when I teach classes, and have had bruises and broken skin from light to moderate tugs. Yes they release quickly, but they do hurt, and if used consistently will pull a lot of the hair from the dog's neck. A prong collar, the ones that look like medieval torture devices, is actually more humane than a slip chain. These can be jerked hard and not leave a scratch on an upper arm. Also, a prong collar can not damage the trachea,in the way that slip chains can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Yes a prong collar does work differently and is less likely to damage the trachea. I've found with a slip collar the hardest thing to get clients to do is keep it high enough and to not let the rings slip underneath the dogs jaw. If they can do that pinching isn't a problem (provided the chain isn't too fine) although as you said they do tend to damage the coat in a hurry. A fur saver collar works well for some dogs with no squeezing action at all but there again you have to keep an eye on people so they don't let it slip down. Better yet, if you get a particularly good student who's bent on starting their puppy off right, and not afraid to use some other forms of physical corrections (ie cheek grab), they may never need more than a good solid buckle coller. Unfortunatly you don't meet these people very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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