Guinea fowl herding

[Lindzey]

We have three guinea fowl at our house. They are all about 7-8 weeks old, and raised from day 1. Now that we are allowing the fowl to roam the yard, we're having to deal with Almost (6 month old pup) herding them.

 

We live in the city, and Almost as had no training in herding whatsoever. Though we adopted him from a Wal*Mart parking lot, I do know that Almosts mother was a herder, and his dad was a labrador (unworked).

 

So our issue now is that Almost is herding our guineas. I don't think he would ever hurt them physically, but Almost thoroughly enjoys singling out a radom one, and backing it into a corner. We're having to kennel him in the back yard when the guineas are out. Just About could care less about the birds.

 

Any tips? Only thing I can think to do is stand out back with the dogs while the guineas are out. How can I correct Almost's behavior?

 

Thanks,

~Lindzey

[BustopherJones]

Sorry, I can't help you with this one. Shadow was introduced to Guinea Hens when the vet took her home to her farm one weekend during one of her surgical recovery periods. Shadow took one look at those fowl, and headed for parts unknown. After the vet got her down from the tree (we didn't know that Border Collies could climb trees until that day), she avoided the pen for the rest of the weekend. Of course, Shadow behaves similarly around ducks and geese as well, so apparently herding any kind of fowl is not in her blood...

[trailrider]

So our issue now is that Almost is herding our guineas. I don't think he would ever hurt them physically, but Almost thoroughly enjoys singling out a radom one, and backing it into a corner.

 

Well, I don`t think this is herding. It is a good chance that this toy that moves will be stopped from moving when things get exciting. Pen the dogs or the birds in turns, but don`t tease the dog this way and expect nothing to happen.

[J.E.S]

Though we adopted him from a Wal*Mart parking lot, I do know that Almosts mother was a herder, and his dad was a labrador (unworked).

 

So our issue now is that Almost is herding our guineas. I don't think he would ever hurt them physically,

Well I hope after he accidently kills one his Labrador side will retrieve it back to you. I wouldn't let my puppy around my Guinea fowl.

[Shawna]

You have a choice, you can either just keep them apart forever and hope that they never accidentally come in contact with each other or teach the dog not to touch or look at them in any kind of preditorial way to begin with.

 

My choice would be to teach the dog to leave them alone, which is what it looks like you want to do. With behaviour that you want to stop completely it's better to let the dog know right off that it's unacceptable. Depending on your dog and your own personality you can either use a leash with a training collar of some sort or you can use a more hands on approach.

 

With the leash, let him walk around the birds but when he looks at them in a preditorial way, give a quick snap and release (the release is just as important as the snap) on the leash and bark "No" or "leave it". Walk him away and then back again. If you haven't been letting him chase/follow/hunt the birds for very long it should only take one or two goes to have him get the message. When you can walk by the birds and he doesn't act preditorial in any way praise him and let him know that's how you want him to behave. Then take him out of the situation, and repeat it again later. Most dog can learn to leave poultry alone without any tramau to themselves, the owner, and most of all the birds using this method.

 

If you don't want to use a training collar, you can use a cheek grab. Have him on a leash so you can keep him close and if he goes for a bird grab him by the cheek and bark "No" or "leave it" while you look sternly in his eyes. You can grab one cheek or both. I personally would grab both cheeks if I wanted to eliminate this type of behaviour, it's a much stronger correction that way. Of course this also depends on the individual dog; a very submissive dog will react to a very mild grab that a stronger minded dog wouldn't hardly notice. The stronger dog might need you to not only grab his face but lift his front feet off the ground to get the message. One thing to keep in mind in this type of a situation is that a little too much is better than not enough. You are dealing with the life of another animal here and if you "over correct" your dog will recover, on the other hand, if you under correct and your dog eventually grabs a bird it won't recover.

 

Now I know that some people don't believe that you should ever use any type of physical correction on a dog, however if the choice is the probable death of one pet by another, or a little bit of discomfort to my dog for a few seconds and a long life of harmony afterward, it just makes sense to make it work.

 

As an encouragement: Several years ago I brought home a five year old labrador who was being rehomed for the fourth time. If she came back again she was going to be destroyed. In her third home she had killed five chickens in two weeks. Within two weeks of living with us she was allowed to roam free in the backyard with ducks, chickens, geese and guinea fowl. Within two months she was allowed out unsupervised and never touched another bird for the rest of her very happy long life. (Not all confirmed killers end up being this trustworthy, however the success rate using this method has been very, very high.)

 

If you don't know how to give a proper leash correction and want to try it you can either find a good trainer who can give you some hands on help which would be the best, or you can e-mail me and I'll give you a written description of how to do it.

 

I noticed you said you lived in the city. You do know that guinea fowl are exceptional flyers and wing clipping only slows some of them down slightly, right? "Roaming the yard" might not be a very good idea once they're a little older.

[Shawna]

Just to clarify:

 

When I say "If you haven't been letting him chase/follow/hunt the birds for very long it should only take one or two goes to have him get the message."

 

This doesn't mean that after you do this twice you can let your dog go and he'll never look at the birds again. I'm simply meaning that after a couple of times he should be understanding what you want. It will take time, supervision, and vigilance to make him totally trustworthy around them.

[Lindzey]

I appreciate all the help. However, you make me look like the bad guy.

 

'Well I hope after he accidently kills one his Labrador side will retrieve it back to you. I wouldn't let my puppy around my Guinea fowl.'

 

I am not stupid. The only time I let my dogs out in the backyard with the guineas are when my dogs are on-leash. Its not like I let Almost out with free space and no supervision. You seem under the impression that I am irresponsible. I wouldn't say I am perfect (far from it), but I value all animals lives. If it helps convince you any J.E.S., I plan on becoming a veterinarian.

 

And to Shawna, thank you. I have had Almost on leash since the hens have been allowed out. I will try the cheek method, as it seems resonable.

 

'You do know that guinea fowl are exceptional flyers and wing clipping only slows some of them down slightly, right?'

 

I am very aware of this, as is my mom. We have 6' fencing in the backyard around the house, and the fence increases in size to 8' moving away from the house. We have had no problems as of yet. Currently, we are keeping the dogs inside or kenneled/crated when the guineas are out.

 

Again, thank you everyone. I had been using leash popping and muzzle grabbing on Almost, but wanted to see everyone elses opinions. And I sure did get an earful.

 

I hope you all dont't think of me as irresponsible or cruel or whatever. I may be young, but I am not stupid.

 

~Lindzey

[Shawna]

The way I see it, Lindzey, the fact you asked for help proves you are not stupid or irresponsible. I'm glad you've been working on him. What you were using might not have worked if you needed to increase the strength in your corrections or work on your timing. OR.. it could be that your dog just needs you to get his eyes off the birds and onto you in order to get the picture.

 

Labs can be beastly stubborn so be good and firm with him. Good luck.

[J.E.S]

So our issue now is that Almost is herding our guineas. I don't think he would ever hurt them physically, but Almost thoroughly enjoys singling out a radom one, and backing it into a corner.

This does not sound like a dog on a leash. The problem with dogs and any kind of fowl is they can be killed in an instant. I had a friend over and while I was in the chicken house a few of my young pullets got out and at the same time she had let her Corgi out. In about 2 seconds time I had lost about 4 of my chickens. If your puppy grabs he can kill the bird quite easily. Sometimes it starts out just wanting to play with the bird and then the dog kills it which can start a cycle of wanting to kill birds. I'm also surprised you have Guineas in the city, they are so noisy. I know here it is against the law to keep any poultry in the city limits. I do have one dog that can herd guineas without making them fly. We used to have a flock that roamed wild and I would send my dog to round them up. But he was experienced working chickens and knew to keep his distance so he didn't startle them.