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AKC BC Wins Pro-Novice dog


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Oh, you didn't intend to mislead! Stir the pot, confuscate the issue, spread misinformation, disrupt and dismay, muddy the waters, you intended all of this and more. But, I'll take your word for it on the other.

I know, why not make some trouble where it will really count for you personally? How about a post devoted to a hot topic on a website devoted to you and yours...

I've got it! The number of inches a dog's eye can diverge from its handlers inseam before it should lose points for lagging or forging? Don't let the total irrelevance to anything real stop you now.

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Why is this a shock? Unusual, certainly, but not a shock. Border collies are great sheepdogs, thanks to their being bred by knowledgeable shepherds and farmers for many, many generations to a standard totally antithetical to the AKC standard. The AKC-registered fragment of the breed has not lost its abilities instantly upon registration; the deterioration will occur gradually. In the meantime, those registering with the AKC can preen themselves on the abilities of the dogs they're betraying.


And certainly it's no shock that shame might prevent those registering border collies with the AKC from revealing their names, or any location more identifying than "warm climate."

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Hi Folks

I think we should know more details. It could be a ABCA dog that was bought and registered AKC or both the parents were ABCA registered and maybe run successfully and the resulting pups were registered AKC.


Or it could be a AKC dogs with AKC lineage which won the trial.


Eiher way, Congrats to the sheepdog.


Diane Pagel

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Guest totallyterry2003

My guess is that Diane is right about the real pedigree of the dog.


In North America, there are at least 1000 pro novice runs in various dog trials each year.

I am suppose to be impressed because an AKC registered dog won a day trial.


Regardless, I would congratulate the dog and handler, but that can't be done as we cannot verify information because it is "veiled in secrecy.". Why is that? Even the trial cannot be disclosed.


Hate to tell you this Alphabet Letters Kate, but pro novice is not open. I won many pro-novice trials with the worst dog that I owned. She didn't have the scope to go further. She is no longer trialed because in my opinion, its not right to run ancient dogs in pro-novice.


P.S. Anyone on the boards want to buy the Mackinaw Bridge from me? I don't need to give you certificate of ownership or deeds so that you can verify that I own it....just take my word for it. This really applies to all the people on the boards that have never met me personally. Trust me. At least you know the location of the Bridge which is more than we know about the dog trial.

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This is the time of year when great handlers have their up-and-coming dogs out for the first few runs, when newly-advanced novice handlers are ironing out the kinks in their handling skills, when nursery dogs are feeling out new courses. Then you have those who moved up last year, are moving their dogs up more slowly for whatever reason, and thus are more seasoned and confident. I love to watch the competition at this time of year (the good natured ribbing when a longtime student beats his mentor, or a famous handler brings up the bottom of the scoreboard) but I wouldn't base my opinion of a dog (or handler) for good or evil on the performance of one dog on one day - or even multiple days on the same course. Some of the best Open dogs were terrible Novice dogs.

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If it's April Quist, congratulations to her!


I believe a few of the BCSA people are sincere when they talk about being committed to preserving "herding instinct" in the AKC border collie, and I've always thought April was in this category. They just have not known enough about working border collies to know what working ability is and why their professed goal is unattainable. When/if these people begin seriously training border collies on livestock and trialing them in USBCHA trials at Open level, they are likely to begin to appreciate the problem. It will be interesting to see then whether they will acknowledge it or deny it.


If it's not April who had the Pro-Novice win, disregard this post. Actually, I'd be surprised if she'd go in for this kind of coy nya-nya stuff.

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For what it's worth, it was April Quist who won with her dog Epic with a score of 80. A total of 54 dogs went to the post and 17 dogs received qualifying runs. Saw the results on the sheepdog-l list. I do not know April Quist personally, simply recognize the name.


I couldn't give a you know what about what "letters" that dog has "in front of its name" whether that be AKC or ABCA. As far as I'm concerned, a handler paid their money to step up to the post, ran their dog, and had a good run and placed first.


Seems like there is always a lot of stone throwing on these boards, yet.....


I'll leave it at that.

Donna May

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Here are the results as posted on the sheepdog list:


To: Sheepdog-L@yahoogroups.com

From: "mellissad1" | This is Spam | Add to Address Book

Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:50:14 -0000

Subject: [sheepdog-L] FWD: N-N & P-N results Sonoma Wine Country Sheep Dog Trials


From: "Claire Acord"

Subject: N-N & P-N results Sonoma Wine Country Sheep Dog Trials



Novice Novice - 3-14-2003...14 dogs went to the post

1 - Marijke Tenge Sweet 69

2 - Claire Acord Liz 66

3 - Nancy Crawford Jan 60 * tie, score broken on outwork

4 - Cris Flint Darby 60

5 - Miriam Wilson Floss 52

6 - Charlotte Lou Stemen Adam 46

7 - Karen Moise Jann 37


Pro Novice - 3-14-2003....54 dogs went to the post

1 -April Quist Epic 80

2 -Terry Parrish blazin Cassie 77

3 -Nancy Neal Nick 76

4 - Miriam Wilson Case 73

5 -Dee Samson Chip 72

6 -Bill berhow Pete 70 * tie, score broken on outwork

7 -Elizabeth Baker Black 70

8 -Francesca Canfield wink 68

9 -David Lee-Johnson Bute 67 * tie, score broken on outwork

10 -Nicky Riehl Lizzie 67

11 -Sandra Andersen Tos 64

12 -Elizabeth Baker Rye 62* tie, score broken on outwork

13 -Geri Byrne Lyn 62

14 -Shelia Rios Geeves 59

15 -Alison Ruhe Jade 58 * tie, score broken on outwork

16 - Claire Acord Meg 58

17 - Teri Tucker Duffy 58




Claire Acord

visit us at Woolrose Farm


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  • 3 weeks later...

A win is a win. High points for a run is high points for a run. Regardless of the registration.


We preach evaluation of a dog for ability and then give someone with AKC reg. dogs a hard time when they start to trial in real trials.


I am not an AKC proponent but we should have spent more time converting this handler to USBCHA than bashing them for doing well with an AKC dog.


If that dog beats any of you on the trial field you'll have only got what you deserve.



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I don't see anyone giving April a hard time about winning a pro-novice trial. Congrats to her, to her dog, etc.


What Terry pointed out, and what I will echo, is that there's a big difference between pro-novice (particularly in the spring) and open. This doesn't not demean the accomplishment of winning a class, but neither does the winning of the class prove that AKC breeding will be the wave of the future for those of us looking for top-drawer working dogs.

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John said: I am not an AKC proponent but we should have spent more time converting this handler to USBCHA than bashing them for doing well with an AKC dog.


Penny: If memory serves, April helped to found the BSCA. Years before she owned livestock or worked her dogs regularly, she provided what was the basic border collie faq on the net. She has come a long way with what can be viewed as a crossbred dog (that particular dog is half from nonworking lines, I think).


Applying the same standard that goes for everyone else with a seven or eight year old dog never run in open that is winning in pro-novice or open ranch yields the following results:


1) Congratulations. That was a big class.


2) Now get out of open ranch and pro-novice and into open where this dog belongs.

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