Auto immune disease? Anyone else dealing with this?

[bcnewe2]

Wow Wendy

I'm so gald you've found acceptable treatmeant for your TBD dog. Mick had allot of the things you mentioned as far as treatmeant and it was the holistic vet that finally got the diag. for me.

Good luck on starting the Baytril. I'm glad that at least Mick could tolerate the Doxy. It was qutie a rough ride for us and took years to get him to where he is now.

 

I'm glad you are so full of pertenint information on such things. We need all the thought provoking information we can get in times of crisis.

I had just about given up on Mick and went to the holistic vet for comfort for Mick. SO glad I kept looking and didn't stop with the first 3 vets or so.

 

Good luck TC. I hope you get things figured out quickly.

[Tommy Coyote]

Doxy, if it is going to work, does so very quickly. So quickly that people tend to stop the dose too early thinking the dog is "well"

 

Did you ever get a holistic vet involved. Sometimes all too often, you will never be granted a diagnosis and treating by symptom is all that can be done. In that, broad mind holistic dvm specialists are often godsends.

 

I currently have a dog with RMSF that is being treated without doxycycline on the advice of 2 very good vets. He's doing marvelously and we have hopes for as full a recovery as possible with tbd. He's about 45 days into treatment and has a good coat and mental state for the first time is a over a year.

 

Acupucuture can do wonders for inflammatory joint pain.

 

IF this dog has an autoimmune disease you would never want to give her any potentiated sulfonamides drugs or NSAID drugs with similar properties such as Deramaxx or Rimadyl. These drugs can trigger autoimmune crisis such as autoimmune hemolytic anemia (AIHA).

 

You also need to look into getting a complete thryoid panel, by Michigan State or Antech/California/Dodds DVM. Low thyroid is another trigger for converting to auti-immune illness. Dodds also is very willing and kind (aka free) to consult with your vet by email/phone to help diagnosis your dog's problems and course of treatment.

 

A good list of the drugs that can be of issue are here The site references Dobermans, but the advice is the same and appears current with what i was taught via a recent Dodds DVM seminar at Rutgers University.

 

What you can't do is *wait*.. Not on a local vet to drag around to another idea...for this to magically get better with "I hope this works" treatment...or internet suggestions. Polyarthritis is very serious, and ever hour is more damage to her growing joints. Get a battle plan - email Dodds through Hemopet, get a thryoid panel off asap.

Thanks so much for the info. Tommy just came into heat so we can't do this for 12-16 weeks (per their instructions). From other things I have been reading her heat cycle may have been a factor. I wonder if she might improve when she goes out of heat which should be pretty soon - maybe another week.

[Lenajo]

The standard testing time frames don't usually apply when the dog is acutely ill. Talk to Dodds. Don't want until she crashes again, likely on the weekend when no extra help is available.

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much for the info. Tommy just came into heat so we can't do this for 12-16 weeks (per their instructions). From other things I have been reading her heat cycle may have been a factor. I wonder if she might improve when she goes out of heat which should be pretty soon - maybe another week.

[stockdogranch]

Not sure if you are just dealing with auto-immune or if it could actually be a TBD. I'll give you my TBD story, in case...

 

My pregnant dog underwent emergency surgery midway through her pregnancy (freak accident/trauma) while we were out of state. Saved the pups, all was well. Two weeks later (10 days prior to whelping), she has shifting lameness, no appetite, extremely lethargic; she's in bad shape. The ER says polyarthritis, elevated white count, but has no other answer. They figure MAYBE TBD, so they start her on Doxy (the low level recommended by the Merck Manual). She responds reasonably well. Meanwhile, I get GREAT advice to go check out Tick-L (which I googled, found, and joined). The recommendations there (from vets) say I need a dose DOUBLE what is prescribed, and to give it for FAR longer than prescribed. I ask the vet to up the dose; they argue with me. I take her out of there, against their whatevers. We get home--she is still very slow moving and lethargic, but at least eating Ok, as I am of course concerned about her pups. The TBD titers come back ALL NEGATIVE. I go to my vet, show her info from Tick-L, and she agrees to up the dose and to let me have it for a long time (like 8-10 weeks). My bitch recovers, whelps 9 pups in two hours, all is well. She stays on Doxy the entire time she is nursing those pups (and then some), and all is well. And no--nobody's teeth had any adverse effects.

 

Three months later we do titers again (a very pricey specific TBD panel for all those we think it might have been) , and still all show negative. However, my vet is convinced it was a TBD (acquired from the emergency blood transfusion for the surgery out of state).

 

I worried for a VERY long time that, even though she looked and acted fine, she could relapse (which can apparently happen with TBDs). After probably a year and a half, I finally relaxed; she has been totally fine since then.

 

So, with TBDs, you can have symptoms, but nothing shows in titers; you can have something showing in titers, but no symptoms, and so on. They can and do recur. Hitting them initially with the high dose of Doxy and for a long time seems to be the best route.

 

You might find Tick-L to be very informative. Best of luck,

A

[Lenajo]

according to my vets, the titers for tbd often read negative during the acute phase.

[Tommy Coyote]

according to my vets, the titers for tbd often read negative during the acute phase.

That actually happened to my vet's briard. All her tests came back negative. And she had tick borne disease. Showed up in the titers (did I spell that right?)

[LowGo]

I logged in here to look to see if I could find anything about Auto Immune, and here was your post. I generally just lurk!

 

I just lost my 5 year old BC in 4 days to an auto immune. I went straight to the University of Missouri Vet School with him. His case is vastly different from yours, but just a few things to look out for, just in case.

 

My dog was totally normal. I pull a full blood panel twice per year, just preventatively. Normal values 3 months ago. Special thyroid test was normal. Sunday night I notice his neck swelling. Fever of 104. Went to vet at 10:30. Looked like an allergic reaction. Treated it as such. No change. Next morning made the trip to the vet school. WBC counts were down to 2200. This disease took his life by Wednesday. Vasculitis, skin edema and peripheral edema, Clotting abnormality, developed strange blisters in his ears which have been confirmed to be auto immune related. He eventually threw a clot in his lung.

 

I am being clinical about this, but trust me, this dog was my life.

 

The vet school threw everything at him that they had. Treated for TBD starting day 1. The Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever test came back "suspicious". They are still stumped. They are still working on necropsy results. Basically, they are concerned that the tick-born diseases may be becoming resistant to doxy/Baytril. We never made ANY headway with any treatment we tried. The only option left was to totally "kill" his immune system and hope it rebuilt, or IVIG.

 

We still don't have results. When I get them, I will be sure to post them here, as I think this could be valuable info for all. The vet school will be writing up a case study and sharing it nation-wide for grand rounds.

 

Good luck with your girl! Please stay alert for any of those signs. My boy had an intermittant limp on his right front, from an agility injury. I still wonder if if wasnt' the start of the auto immune disease.

 

Take care-Jessica

[Tommy Coyote]

I am so sorry about your dog. How awful.

e

Tommy is actually doing better but not great. She is on prednisone and another immune system depressant. I just try to take it one day at a time. We have good days (not great but at least she is up and around) and not so good days. Last Saturday she was so bad I had to carry her everywhere. But the emergency room vet changed her drugs and she has been steadily getting better. I don't expect that she will ever be "normal." I am keeping her really quiet because exercise seems to make her much worse. She really does have classic symptons for ideopathic polyarthritis. It has been devastating.

 

I have finally found what I think is a good holistic vet out in Johnson County that does accupuncture and I'm going to get ahold of them this week. Kansas City isn't exactly the holistic capital of the US.

[Tommy Coyote]

I am so sorry about your dog. How awful.

e

Tommy is actually doing better but not great. She is on prednisone and another immune system depressant. I just try to take it one day at a time. We have good days (not great but at least she is up and around) and not so good days. Last Saturday she was so bad I had to carry her everywhere. But the emergency room vet changed her drugs and she has been steadily getting better. I don't expect that she will ever be "normal." I am keeping her really quiet because exercise seems to make her much worse. She really does have classic symptons for ideopathic polyarthritis. It has been devastating.

 

I have finally found what I think is a good holistic vet out in Johnson County that does accupuncture and I'm going to get ahold of them this week. Kansas City isn't exactly the holistic capital of the US.