NorthfieldNick Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I'm not really sure that's an appropriate topic line, but it seems to me this problem has to do with confidence issues. Nick, who turned 5 on June 14, used to be so fast and pushy that he'd send the sheep over the top of me every single time he lifted them. I got him at 2, and a lot of this problem resolved itself as he matured and we learned to be a team. Nick hates to lose sheep- he's one of those dogs who will do everything possible to make sure his sheep stay together. It seemed to me that as he matured and figured out that he could be in control of the sheep, he backed off, slowed down and found balance quite nicely when he quit worrying so much about losing sheep. (We're usually working groups of 20-70 sheep.) This lasted all through last year's (2008) lambing season. No problems with the few ewes who I know are trouble on for the dog (they're heavy, and like to stand down the dog when they have lambs, etc). This year, everything was fine and dandy until this spring, when the '09 lambs hit that stage when they're starting to be independent and not glued to their mother's sides. All of a sudden, Nick will NOT walk into pressure. If the sheep stop to graze on a patch of clover, say, when we're moving them down the field, he won't put pressure on them. I KNOW the sheep will move off of him, if he'd just take two steps forward. Out of sheer frustration (I HAD to put the sheep back in their pasture after shearing), I went around and helped Nick move the sheep. Driving is not his strong suit- I haven't worked on it much- so he flanks right around to their heads and balances the sheep to me. Fine, I think, and I walk around the other way, Nick flanks around to balance, I back off to give the sheep somewhere to go, and... nothing. Nick flanks back and forth right on the edge of the "zone" and the sheep stand there. Then, out of massive frustration, I grabbed Nick (I need to put a collar on him) and dragged him into the sheep, who promptly moved. This was an utter failure, as it just seemed to make Nick lose his mind. He proceeded to run around like a pup on sheep for the first time, not thinking, not listening. I finally laid him down, and moved the damn sheep myself with much running & cursing. We then had a day of sheepy disasters with my friend's sheep, none of it due to Nick. He actually penned nearly 200 sheep- more than I think he's ever worked before- twice. I had poor human help, and the whole day ended right back where we started with lambs happily (to them) not weaned. Then, this morning, I drive by a pasture & see that my sheep have rubbed open a gate and are not where they should be. Ewes & lambs, tall grass, raining... I send Nick out to get the sheep, he misses half of them, swings out on a look back command without missing a beat, and has the flock back where it should be before I can even get to the darn gate! What gives? What happened to my dog who used to push sheep so hard they'd run over me? Nick appropriately gripped a recalcitrant ram, but he won't move in on the ewes. He did have one run in with a ewe who bashed him- my friend's sheep were loose on the road, and I had no idea this ewe was so evil (this sheep needs to go to the freezer- she's that bad), but this was long before this all started. It'll be interesting to see how Nick acts when I wean lambs in a week, but in the meantime, and for the future, any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyT Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 First things to check are health and eyes. In the the health department, I'd be looking at tick-borne diseases and parasites like giardia. Second, in the plain old what the heck happened here department, I would go back to basic driving and fetching with you close. I would try health first. Penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 First things to check are health and eyes. In the the health department, I'd be looking at tick-borne diseases and parasites like giardia. Second, in the plain old what the heck happened here department, I would go back to basic driving and fetching with you close. I would try health first. Penny I second that too- my Nellie was very ill about two years ago with a strange septic infection that we never found the root cause for, but I starting suspecting something wasn't right with her quite a while before she was obviously ill. I had them run a full round of bloodwork and x-ray her for arthritis, but nothing showed up until she broke with the infection (they suspected TBD but concluded later that it was unlikely). At five too, he may just start to have the beginnings of arthritis, so I wouldn't think it would hurt to put him on some glucosamine supplements at least. My Nellie was extremely pushy from day one, and when she stopped pushing on her own and had to be begged to do it, I knew something was wrong (try explaining that to your vet though- and I work for mine LOL!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy V Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Have you tried working him on smaller groups of sheep, perhaps five or less? You could even taper it down to a single, which should get him moving again. Mobs of sheep would keep him on the periphery (flanking), so perhaps his training needs to be rebalanced with smaller numbers. HTH, Wendy ETA: There is nothing wrong with helping the dog out if it needs it. Frustration/anger will only exasberate the problem. A collar and line will help him stay right. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Ben When can you come down here again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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