Clicker Question

[eclare]

I have a quick question for the more experienced trainers out there. I've never used a clicker in training. I was taught to same basic behavior marking principle, but my first trainer simply used her voice, rather than a clicker. It has worked fine up to now, and my dog is pretty well behaved. She sits nicely, has a lovely down, and stays, sitting or down, for several minutes if asked.

 

Now I'm trying to shape some new commands (stand, sit at a distance, etc.) but I'm finding that my voice marking is not precise enough to shape these behaviors properly and the poor dog is really confused about what I want her to do. So I want to start workign with a clicker.

 

My question is, what's the best way to clicker train an already reasonably well trained dog. Should I just start from the very beginning by clicking and treating so she associates the sound with the reward? Or should I train the behaviors as I am already and just add the clicker in whenever she starts shaping correctly.

 

Any and all thoughts are more than welcome!

[Ninso]

I added a clicker after using other training methods first. I would start by charging the clicker--c/t, c/t, c/t--until the dog starts to associate the sound with a treat and starts looking for his treat when he hears that sound. Then I would shape a simple behavior (e.g., touching a target, interacting with an object) using the click as a marker so the dog begins to understand the click as a marker. You should be good to go from there, especially if your dog already understands marker training.

[jenkshipley]

My question is, what's the best way to clicker train an already reasonably well trained dog. Should I just start from the very beginning by clicking and treating so she associates the sound with the reward? Or should I train the behaviors as I am already and just add the clicker in whenever she starts shaping correctly.

 

Here are some links to some decent clicker training books.

 

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB1049

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB714P

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB622

http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTA260

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Well, I just kind of jumped into clicker training with both feet. Didn't really have a clue what I was doing, but "got" the basic idea. At that point, I didn't even know about loading the clicker. Daisy was already a fairly well behaved/trained dog, I just wanted to teach her tricks. She did figure out really quickly that click=treat (like two reps). I never used a verbal marker with her before hand, just treats. I would, if I were you, just continue training the way you are, but add in the clicker. The click will be more accurate and you will follow it with a verbal marker...once she starts picking up that the click means the same thing as the verbal marker, you could go ahead and phase out the marker word.

[eclare]

Well, I just kind of jumped into clicker training with both feet. Didn't really have a clue what I was doing, but "got" the basic idea. At that point, I didn't even know about loading the clicker. Daisy was already a fairly well behaved/trained dog, I just wanted to teach her tricks. She did figure out really quickly that click=treat (like two reps). I never used a verbal marker with her before hand, just treats. I would, if I were you, just continue training the way you are, but add in the clicker. The click will be more accurate and you will follow it with a verbal marker...once she starts picking up that the click means the same thing as the verbal marker, you could go ahead and phase out the marker word.

 

 

Your Daisy sounds a lot like my Daisy!

 

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to swing by the book store after work to see if I can find a copy of "The Thinking Dog" and try working with the clicker tonight. Poor Daisy is my first dog. I've made tons of mistakes with her and have miraculously managed not to ruin her, so I think she can handle a little clicker experimentation.

[MicheleS.]

Definitely start, as Ninso responded, by loading/charging the clicker.

I wanted to tell you of my experiences with the clicker. I have trained mostly for competition obedience and never used a clicker, just my voice. I have an aussie, didn't use a clicker for obedience training but semi-learned to use one when we started agility and used it periodically just for agility. She definitely has a good understanding of the clicker.

My aussie is 6 years old, has a utility dog title and one (yes one - yeah!) otch point to her credit. Started competing with her in the B rings (experienced handlers and dogs to be short) and she was always just out of the placements because of her crooked sits and crooked finishes. (in heel position) Took her to other instructors for help in fixing this bad habit. Bad idea, some of the methods used were a little too rough for my dog and me which set my dog back in the confidence department enough that I wasn't able to show her for a while. Major guilt over that - ugh! This was a very confident and happy dog working in the ring. Still not but trying to work back to that.

In the meantime, I got Chase the BC. Very shy, very sensitive type. I decided to do mostly clicker training with him and he has responded so well with it.

I thought why not try shaping my aussie's sits with the clicker?! Dumb me tried everything else under the sun, nearly destroying my dog in the process, but no one ever suggested that I try shaping that with a clicker! I did start with clicking simple things that she knew like sit, down, signals and clicked that just to make sure she understood the clicker in the obedience context. I moved on and started clicking her straight sits and guess what? I rarely see a crooked sit from her. I haven't tested it at a show yet but so far, I'm liking what I see from using it with her.

So, all I can say is that I have had positive results on a very highly trained 6 year old dog that was used to mostly voice praise. I'm sorry I didn't think of using it sooner. It took my shy little BC to teach me the clicker lesson.

Good luck.

Michele &

Hughie &

Gypsy &

Chase

[Root Beer]

Once the clicker is charged, I always recommend two things for introducing the clicker to a dog who has been trained without the clicker.

 

1. After charging the clicker, hold a treat in one hand and have the clicker in the other hand and other treats handy. Hold the treat in a fist and let the dog sniff, check the hand out, etc. The second the dog stops trying to get the treat, click, and give one of the other treats.

 

Dogs tend to catch on to this fast and start to actually pull the nose away from the hand. Move on to clicking every time the dog does that.

 

The important thing in this exercise is that the dog is never told what to do and the dog is never wrong. This teaches the dog that his or her choice makes the click happen. That's important for a dog to know before you begin any kind of shaping.

 

2. Cue some behaviors that the dog knows (sit, down, etc) and click the dog for responding correctly. You want to time your click as best you can so that the actual behavior is clicked. So, for a sit, you want to click the instant that your dog's rump hits the floor, or a teeny bit before it does. This is not only a great exercise for the dog to learn that the click is a mark that means he or she is correct and a treat is coming, but it is a good timing exercise for the handler. (Note: don't worry if some of your clicks are "off" - clicker training is very forgiving in that way and your timing will get better)

 

Once I do these two things, I move on to simple shaping exercises and using the clicker to teach new behaviors through lure/click. I do both - there are mixed opinions on that, but that would be another topic!!