ZionCreek Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Good morning I'm writing from Italy, and I'm border collie breeder. I'm also agility, obedience and rally-o trainer. I bought last year a nice girl from Astra Sheepdog, I'm very happy about the dog, she's very good in agility, good way of work, good jump, but unfortunatelly her breader doesn't send to me her pedigree. She makes to me a lot of promises but notthing is arrived untill today (1 year) . Have someone of you the same problem of mine? How have you solved it? cristina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Why would you ever buy a dog from Astra Sheepdogs? What did you see/hear/experience that made you think THAT was a good idea? Moreover, what type of response do you feel you will get on this board when you come on here before you've even searched the name "Astra" ... or read the very clearly stated philosophy of this board ... announced you're a breeder, and posted your link which takes us all to a site where puppies are being bred out of unproven parents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionCreek Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Why would you ever buy a dog from Astra Sheepdogs? What did you see/hear/experience that made you think THAT was a good idea? Moreover, what type of response do you feel you will get on this board when you come on here before you've even searched the name "Astra" ... or read the very clearly stated philosophy of this board ... announced you're a breeder, and posted your link which takes us all to a site where puppies are being bred out of unproven parents? sorry I do not understand your languages very well so I do not know what you mean when you speak about unproven parents? All my dogs have pedigree and parents are well known in my country and in Europe... parents from my Miky are in 3° class of sheepdog parents of my Giada are from Serge van der Zep, well known in europe for his presence in Sheepdogs trials parents of Enjoy, Looney,. Lolita, banshee and bobo are well know in europe for dog show, all my dogs is working in agility, obedience and rally-o with good results. This just to tell to you that my dogs are not uknown, and I do not need to palce my signature to make adverisements of get more traffic to my website, but just to let you know who I am, and to introduce to you all my loved dogs. When I looked an Astra dog I was looking for a good red merle girl, as in my country this color is very rare, to mate in the future with my lilac male, and go on with working blood line (i breed working blood line and beauty blood lines) and above all I was looking for a dog to train in agility as our Giada is 9 years old and it's time to stop her. I saw some dogs coming from Astra Mars running in agility and I was very enthusiastic about them, so this is the reason why I choosed an Astra dog. Now the reason why I wrote my post in your website is just to have more info about what can I do, I'm not very informed about ISDS rules as I have always had FCI registered dogs, and this is my first experience with an ISDS registered dog. There are no other reason and if the link to my website is a problem for you I can remove it without problems as as I told to you I do not need publicity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura L Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Cristina, What Jodi is trying to say is that here on the BC Boards, we don't believe that you should be breeding for color. No matter how "rare" the color is. And by proven, that means proven to work sheep on an ISDS style course or real farm work. Not agility, not rally-o, not showing, and not obedience. There's nothing wrong with doing these things (well maybe not the showing), but it shouldn't be the basis of a breeding program. Read the link that is in Jodi's post, it's also at the top of the page. It gives you an idea of the atmosphere of the Boards. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionCreek Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Cristina, What Jodi is trying to say is that here on the BC Boards, we don't believe that you should be breeding for color. No matter how "rare" the color is. And by proven, that means proven to work sheep on an ISDS style course or real farm work. Not agility, not rally-o, not showing, and not obedience. There's nothing wrong with doing these things (well maybe not the showing), but it shouldn't be the basis of a breeding program. Read the link that is in Jodi's post, it's also at the top of the page. It gives you an idea of the atmosphere of the Boards. Laura Laura thank you for your answer, I have seen the link, but I do not breed and i'll never do it for a color, the first think I check is the health of my dogs, then work ability and other things. The think that surprised me is that you are sure that my dogs have never seen a shep. I do not make sheepdog competition, but I've also tested some of my dogs on shep and prepared for 1 class. but you have to consider that here is not easy to find someone near home able to train to sheepdog. Liuba Musso is very good, and prepared (she represent italy many times to sheepdog competitions) but she's at 5 hours from my home and so I train my dogs when I can go there. The only think I understant from your posts I'm not welcome in this board so I think it's better i'll delete my account Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 The only think I understant from your posts I'm not welcome in this board so I think it's better i'll delete my account I think the language/translation can be an issue. Don't run off things will work out if you give it time. Everyone is welcome, just not everyone breeding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I'm writing from Italy, and I'm border collie breeder. When I looked an Astra dog I was looking for a good red merle girl, as in my country this color is very rare, to mate in the future with my lilac male but I do not breed and ... i'll never do it for a color As many of you know, I have a hard enough time effectively communicating with someone whose first language is English. I will step out and leave this one to the rest of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Cristina - Welcome to the USBCC boards. Have you read the "read this first" that explains the philosophy of these boards. If not, please read it. Your posts and your website indicate that the main way you "prove" your dogs is in performance sports, not in real work on real livestock. Just "testing" or preparing for "one class" is not proving a dog to have quality working abilities and instincts, and only Border Collies who demonstrate that they are worthy of breeding through genuine work should even be considered to be bred. The show ring is absolutely the worst place to "prove" a dog's abilities because it does nothing to prove any sort of working ability. Working ability is stockworking ability, not agility, performance sports, or another other endeavor. Since you are obviously breeding for color and with sports in mind, even if your dogs are generally only a few generations removed from working dogs that have proven themselves, you are still not breeding "for the right reasons" which are to breed proven working dogs to proven working bitches. To limit your breeding by color is like trying to breed racehorses but only ones that are chestnuts - you are limiting yourself to a much-reduced gene pool and selecting based on something other than ability. I'm sorry if you don't find that your breeding philosophy is well-regarded here because it is not what Border Collies should be bred for. I hope you are willing to stay, read, listen, and learn and maybe you will understand why we are passionate about breeding for "the right reasons" and not for sport, color, show, and the pet market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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