Shoofly Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I bet that would be your Moss, the g-g-grandfather of Robin's Billie. Moss stories please. Carol Yes, Moss stories please. I'm certainly high on Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carol campion Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 It would be fun if you have time to video Jed and Lana her dogs and anyone else to see the different types of eye. Or no eye. Not with the intention of criticizing dog or people—but to see the types we are talking about and how their eye affects the sheep. It would be an education for lots of readers. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcollie Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 It would be fun if you have time to video Jed and Lana her dogs and anyone else to see the different types of eye. Or no eye. Carol What a good idea Carol ... that might help Elizabeth get a little more feedback. However, we all know how hard it is to get that accomplished :~) If they could film each other that might make it easier. I saw Kell run at Zamora and he handled the range ewes "just fine" :~) You mean stories other than he slept by my bed every night until he died :~) One of my favorite things was I would use him to help young dogs on their first lambing season. He would help "back them up" but not get in the way. If the ewe was trying to "take on" the youngster Moss would walk straight into her head and keep walking. As she was backing away ... he would glance sideways at me and ask "can I bite her" :~) If I just said walk on he knew he wasn't suppose to bite so he would just keep walking (unless she charged and then he nailed her cleanly on the nose and held his ground). My favorite trial one was at Meeker when he was the only dog to do the look back cleanly ... he was a great big course dog. He would walk straight on and push enough on the lift to get them going and then do the entire course without stopping till the shed (someone once said he did the entire course with nothing but a there whistle :~). Cool headed, calm, a lot of gears and tons of heart. No wonder I miss him :~( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lana Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I would be happy to film Jed, my eye dog Kell, and then my young dog Nellie who i have typed about wanting her to use more eye. Leaving for the finals on Sunday so it wont be tell after the trip, but i think it could be a great learning tool for a lot of us. Working with eye comes up a lot here on the boards. I almost sold Kell when he was 3. I went to Karen Child and told her i needed to figure out how to deal with his eye, or move on. I was really torn about it because Kell has the heart of a lion, and i knew it was all my weakness as a trainer, and mistakes in early training. Karen helped me figure out how to run him, and i must say i am happy i stuck with it I am sure there are others who could use the kind of help i got with my eye dog issues, and i always need to stay sharp when running Kell. Shedding with a strong eye dog can also be a trick..one i am still trying to master..might be another good video. I sat in the truck with EB at Zamora and studied a lot of sheds, i especially tried to watch the dogs i thought were most like Kell...IE needed to flank very little in the shed ring as they scare the sheep. Interestingly Jed is great shedding, and has much nicer/calmer flanks than Kell on his best day. Jed also comes in much better than Kell does, so his eye is some how different i guess.... Lana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Just wanted to say, this conversation has been very interesting. My Jett pup is going to be started next month (yeah, I know -- better late than never right) and I am curious to see how she shapes up. Will she be like half-bro Jed, or like daddy Rye, or completely different? All I know right now is that she really really likes sheep and is fast as stink. Thanks for the discussion, it's been very educational for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippin's person Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 It would be fun if you have time to video Jed and Lana her dogs and anyone else to see the different types of eye. Or no eye. Not with the intention of criticizing dog or people—but to see the types we are talking about and how their eye affects the sheep. It would be an education for lots of readers. Carol This would be really cool--I wonder if there's a grant somewhere that could fund something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carol campion Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 This would be really cool--I wonder if there's a grant somewhere that could fund something like this. I am thinking to open a Photobucket account just for this for people to send in videos for study—not for critiquing. But so people can have concrete examples. Very busy now so will give it attention later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMSBORDERCOLLIES Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I'm sure you know who he was :~)I think that would help keep you in the "back of his mind" at all times. Maybe increase talking to him (not telling him what to do "per say" as much as keeping in contact so he can't "tune you out")? Hi Candy. I think we are talking about your old Moss dog here and I was pretty new to the Open world at the time but I remember saying to myself, she calls this dog's name pretty well all the time before she gives him a command, whistle or voice. I liked the way Moss worked and I kind of got the idea that you needed to be in full contact with this dog ALL THE TIME. Probably because he had some "control freak" in him and could tend to get "deaf" at times. If that was so, it definitely worked for you and the dog as you were very successful with him Staying in contact with the dog and having him listen ALL THE TIME is extremely important. You can't help him if he won't listen and some of these "control freak" type dogs don't always like to listen. "Hey you" works for me but I also like to call the dog's name to let him know I'm still here and sometimes I call it in all sorts of manner depending on the situation. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Hello all. I've been reading all this discussion with interest wondering what I would do with a dog like Jed, the way Elizabeth describes him. Mirk has a great deal of eye and likes to work much closer to his sheep than he needs, in that zone Elizabeth talks about. Early on he trialed like he had always worked in Wales. Effective, but rash and we've worked pretty hard on getting that cleaned up for the trial field. He was tense and had a hard time letting go of anything. Early on I would say his name to get his attention, his head would come up, then we could continue on. What I've done for the last year is slowly but surely free'd him up doing exercises to relieve his tension. I've taught him that sheep aren't always getting away from him when he thinks they are. He struggled to take an off balance flank, so we've done a ton of that in lots of different ways. I've flanked him all the way around on the fetch, and stopped a lot of fetches in route and flanked to cross drive or take sheep back, instead of bringing them all the way to me. I've had him push sheep through a gate (lots of rattling and excitement) then downed him while they ran off until he was calm enough to gather them up again quietly. I put him in a round pen (small space, lots of sheep) then had him shed off 1 at a time. That is still hard for him and we're still workinig on learning to complete this quietly. He doesn't want any to get out the gate, and after they all do, he's twitching to go get them. Quite often I'll have him drive and fetch using only big sweeping flanks instead of just pacing straight behind his sheep. And I've done that while keeping his flanks square, so it took some time. Now those big sweeping flanks are square and I'm giving them on the fly. In the beginning it felt like Mirk and I were fighting with each other over pace and "the zone." I was always holding him back and breaking him loose and he was always resisting. Over the last year I would say we've learned to trust each other. Through this process he has become so much more obedient to my commands and things flow. I can keep him at a nice distance from his stock and now he's comfortable there. It doesn't sound like our dogs are completely alike, except for the eye and zone, but I hope some of this helps, Elizabeth and thanks for the definition of "bottom." Got it. Cheers all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 This is so helpful for Sam and me also. We are still working on his pace. He still works so close but little by little we are doing getting him to keep off the sheep. Today he did some nice square flanks; not totally comfortable yet but we are getting there. The chasing, splitting and gripping was so minimal today. It makes us want to work on these things and get on the same page. Thanks everyone for the continuing ideas. Narita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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