JaderBug Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I just got out of the first day of a sheep science class I am taking this semester. Never in a million years did I dream I would be taking this class. Sheep are stupid. Sheep are annoying. Sheep are about useless. These are the thoughts that I've had for many many years. While I've come to learn better about those thoughts, I'm still shocked that I am enrolled in this class. Let alone being in a class, I never dreamed that owning sheep would even be something I would consider. Thanks to these Border Collies and my new-found love of herding, I'm hoping to learn a lot from this class so that I can own my own sheep down the road... if the cards fall right I might even be looking to 'borrow' some this summer if I end up moving home for a summer job. There's an opportunity in the class to get some first-hand experience with lambing this February- something I've never done. My apartment is located on the outside of town and less than a mile from the university's teaching farms, so I'm planning on taking advantage of this opportunity to learn about lambing and sheep production. Should be a lot of fun, although I'm sure Jade will be horribly jealous when I come back smelling like sheep and she doesn't get to go. I think the farm raises club lambs and another type... one flock is white with black legs and faces, the others are all white. Amazing what these little dogs will make you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I can't agree more, you will need to share your experiance from you class! Me, I'm just going to drop in about a dozen head of sheep and hope for the best:) Here's one for you and the rest that read this, I have asked,,,,,,,, How do I get the sheep in the round pen if I dont have a working dog,,,, and I still do not have an answer:) How funny is that!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Maybe this is just me, and maybe this would be starting a bad habit, but you could try feeding them in the round pen or luring them in with a bucket of food... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 nope, thats not a good habit to start, they will always want to be at your feet,,,,,,,, keep trying:) It would just be my luck to have a bunch of these things running around and I cant get them in the pen,,,, LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 lol see these are the types of things I still need to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 How do I get the sheep in the round pen if I dont have a working dog Be the dog It'll teach you a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjones Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Moving a bunch of sheep with feed bucket = human on the ground getting run over by pointy little hooves as sheep fight over who gets the feed! Sounds like a fun class, I'm sure you'll come away with some useful knowledge. Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Oh, you're doomed! I spent my day yesterday up to my waist (I'm short & have big sheep) in very wet sheep. And I loved every minute of it! Lambing can be an adventure. It's boring somtimes, and stressful others. It's very satisfying to watch a ewe pop out healthy lambs with no problems, but it's no match for the relief and adrenaline rush you get when the stuck lamb you've spent an hour sorting out of it's mother takes a breath after you've just about given up on getting it to live. I love my sheep! Welcome to the dark (hey, I've got coloured sheep) side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Sounds like a good class; you should learn lots. About moving the sheep to the round pen; that was my problem. My sheep weren't dog broke (not totally wild either). Finally just got my dog and moved them. At first we had sheep spread all over the yard. Even had them escape once. Sure ruined my dog's outrun so now we have to fix it. But, we were able to figure out how to move them without feeding them in the round pen. That would have been the best way though in my opinion. We have Aussies and not Border Collies so it was a little harder at first. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Okay, so perhaps I'm a moron, but I don't see a problem with feeding them at first if that's the easiest way to get them into the round pen. You won't get run over if your dog is at your side or the round pen gate is closed (best option) before you put the feed down. Presumably at some future date, they would come willingly to the round pen, and if not, you'd have trained up your dog enough to help you (and so would no longer need feed to lure them anyway). And your dog can also be useful (eventually) for holding them away from you while you put feed out. (After all, there are generally times when you'll want or need to feed your sheep, say, during lambing, so there's nothing inherently wrong with feeding them, and I'd sure rather do that at first then risk inadvertently teaching my untrained dog bad habits while trying to get them up without grain.) As long as you don't make pets out of them in the process, they will still work fine for a dog. I'm all about not making any more work for myself than is necessary, and if feed is the way to keep me from having to go round up the sheep myself, then that's what I'd do. Newsflash: unless your sheep are people friendly, and amenable to being herded by a human, you won't manage very easily to "be the dog," humans just aren't fast enough, nor do they read sheep well enough, to truly do the work of a good dog. (You can easily be the dog in small spaces, like a round pen, because the sheep can't get up a head of steam to get around you and escape, but in an open pasture trying to get them into a pen they apparently aren't interested in going in, especially once they figure out that they get worked there, well, all I can say is good luck. Let's just say that every time I have gone out in the pasture without a dog and then found that I needed to move the sheep or catch one or whatever, I've given up pretty quickly and gone and gotten the dog, and I can read sheep pretty darn well.). Personally, if it's dog training I want to get done, then I'd get the sheep into the round pen the quickest way possible and that's likely with feed. JMO. Rachel, You will learn quite a lot if you hang out in the teaching barns during lambing time. Lambing is always a great time, and if you've gained that valuable experience at school it will make your first lambing on your own much less stressful for you. I think you're very smart to get all the education you can before stepping in and getting sheep--it never hurts to be prepared! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denice Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I have been raising sheep for nearly 10 yrs now and I have never thought they were dumb. They come to the barn at dusk by themselves or bed down under a light or at least on a rise to see the surrounding pasture, they lamb and raise their lambs for the most part without my assistance, they avoid mud and rain and the hot sun in the summer. They can read a dog as well as the dog reads read them... I also see no problem in feeding the sheep in the round pen to be able to get them in the pen. My sheep know the difference between me walking amoung them to get a close look at everyone or catch one to treat it and feeding them. Granted when you are carrying a feed bucket they will gather around quickly. I would go into the round pen close the gate, dump the feed, then open the gate and rattle the bucket. I moved lots of sheep without a dog for a couple years, now I rarely go outside without a bc by my side. Even now there are times I will move a ewe with feed. Actually just tonight I was feeding hay and getting ready for our really cold weather when a ewe that is rather close to lambing walked into the barn with one other ewe and I saw the perfect opportunity to sort her off into a stall so I know she will be in where it is warm if she lambs. There was no good way to get a dog behind those two sheep so I had the dog lie by the barn door and grapped a grain bucket. Two minutes, no fuss, nice and quiet I had those 2 ewes closed in a stall. There are some good home study courses out there for sheep management. Univ of Minn - Pipestone has a really nice course as does Univ of Wy. There both are great for those who are just getting into sheep / lambing. Denice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllieMackie Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 haha, I hear you! I do plan on owning a fibre production farm someday (I spin and knit), but I never thought I'd be so blown away by a BC's abilities. It makes me want sheep even more than ever, to have the pleasure of someday doing what my BCs were hardwired for. <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I'm already learning quite a bit in the class so far... never knew anything about which breeds would make better maternal/terminal lines, which breeds are best for wool/meat/dairy/mothering/etc. We went out to the ISU Sheep teaching farm for lab this week- they have the oldest running registered Hampshire line in the US, a herd (flock?) of Polypay sheep, and one other white-faced herd that we didn't see. Their hampshires are HUGE!!! The day we went out they demonstrated baby lamb processing... the first one was less than a day old (his navel was still wet and still had slime in his wool) and sixteen pounds. I've never heard of a lamb being that big before. The herd manager says its mother is more like a cow than a sheep. Still trying to learn a lot of the terminology... wether ewes? Sounds like an oxymoron to me. I was looking back over an old thread of mine... the more I see the Scottish Blackfaces the more I like them. If you cross breed them with something else, are they less crazy or less prone to kill your fences? Are there polled varieties, or can you remove the horns by crossing with a polled breed? How do you go about finding them in the US? So far I haven't really seen many breeders, at least not in the midwest. I think I've decided I really like Cheviots too... they're cute . On a side note, Jade had a lesson the other day (first in 2 months thanks to the crappy weather!)- our trainer has (cheviot?) cross sheep, they're all white and pretty short. After words we went to a friend's acreage who was housing some huge Hampshire or Suffolk rams there... Jade went up to the pen, sniffed one and just had this look of "Wtf is this??" Very strange- almost like she didn't even realize they were sheep. Usually when she sees sheep she wants to get in and work with them, but she seemed totally uninterested in these guys. I was very surprised! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Terms like "whether ewes" and "whether sires" come from the show side of the business. These are the sheep that are used to produce whethers for show -- club lambs. Breeders use the term to distinguish this type of sheep from ones that they would use to produce the next generation of purebred breeding stock. They call these "foundation" ewes and sires, quite often. In the production world, we'd generally refer to these as terminal versus maternal sheep. The biggest newborn lamb I've ever delivered alive was 23 lbs. Corn-belt Hampshire lambs in the teens shouldn't be unusual at all. Blackies excel at making something out of nothing. But they don't make much out of it. If you're looking for sheep to take advantage of local resources, your Iowa farmland can support much more productive sheep than Scottish Blackface. They are wonderful sheep and all, but keeping them on Iowa farmland would be like driving a Humvee in the suburbs. The Scottish Blackface and its cousin, the Swaledale, along with Cheviots, Clun Forests, and a few other breeds, form the first tier of the British three-tiered sheep production system. These hill breeds live in the rough, mountainous terrain where very little is available in the way of feed resources. Stocking rates are low, overall inputs are low, and many of these flocks wean less than 1 lamb per ewe per year. In fact, in most hill flocks, weaning 120 percent would be a banner year. However, these ewes require very little by way of support. The lambs are small, and do not yield particularly desirable meat carcasses. Where the hill breeds shine is later on in their lives. After lambing four times on the hill (so, at age five or six), these ewes are brought down to lower ground where feed is easier to get. These are known as draft ewes. The draft ewes are bred to a bluefaced Leicester ram (the second tier). The resulting ewe lambs are known as mules, and the mules have tremendous hybrid vigor. They have also picked up prolificacy, size, and milkiness from the BFL. Mules are bred to a terminal sire, such as a Suffolk, Hampshire, or Texel (the third tier), which produces an excellent carcass. Mule ewes commonly wean lamb crops of 185 to 200 percent. But these mule ewes would starve to death on the ground that produced their mothers. They need better forage and more of it to survive and thrive. This system is primarily forage based. The sheep you'll be seeing at Iowa State will have been selected and bred for grain-based production. There's nothing wrong with that, but they are an entirely different type of sheep production. The point of all this is to say that there are reasons for the various breeds of sheep: they take advantage of local resources, microclimates, markets, and production infrastructure. If you drop blackies into the corn belt, there's no reason that they won't do well -- after all, you have more than adequate feed resources for them -- but there are breeds and crossbreds that are better suited to utilize those resources. For more information on the three-tiered breeding system, see http://www.mulesheep.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.