Whistle Tone

[jdarling]

I have had Kent Kuykendall's Gaining the Winning Edge with Whistles CD for quite a while now. When I put whistles on Zip, it was half-hearted, and to this day, I don't have solid flank whistles on him. I have decided I need to clean up my whistles before I start Echo on her flank whistles. I've already introduced the stop, walk up and call off. So, I dug through my stuff and downloaded the CD on to my IPOD and have been going over it as I am walking around town at lunch or whatever.

 

Does anyone use his whistles, or base theirs off his? I can't figure out how to put his stop whistle right next to his come bye whistle to hear the difference in the very first part of the tone. I'll see if I can explain what I mean.

 

His stop whistle is WHEEEEE (and it tails off)

 

His come bye whistle is WHEEEE OOOO WHEEEET

 

For instance, on the pitch scale, (first tone only) is it:

 

Highest: Stop or Lie down (WHEEEEE [tail])

2nd highest: Come bye (WHEEEE OOOO WHEEEET)

3rd highest: Walk Up (WOO WOO)

4th highest: Way to me (WOOO WHEE OOO)

 

Or is it:

 

Highest: Come bye (WHEEEE OOOO WHEEEET)

2nd highest: Stop or Lie down (WHEEEEE [tail])

3rd highest: Walk Up (WOO WOO)

4th highest: Way to me (WOOO WHEE OOO)

 

The first part of the stop whistle and the first part of the come bye whistle is the same in composition, but I am sure the tone is different. Which one is higher? How have you differentiated between the two so that it's clear to the dog? I really like this set of whistles, but I would like to have them as clear as possible before I ask Echo to try to distinguish them from eachother.

 

Thanks.

Jodi

[NRhodes]

Thanks for posting this! Whistles are hard for me as I have a hard time distinguishing different tones and a really hard time making lower notes. (woo woo) Specifically starting low for the away whistle. Seeing it wrote out like this for whatever reason caused my brain to 'click' and I can make that damn sound reliably!! How goofy.

 

Anyway, related to your question: my stop whistle is higher. It's more like:

Stop: WEEEEE!

Come Bye: WHEEET WHEEET

 

Notice the lack of an 'H' in the stop whistle. It's a different sound. If that makes any sense.

[Shoofly]

I actually spent some time sitting on a bench with Kent working on that, since i don't hear tones very well. It helped me to think of the first note of the wee ooh weet as peeee ooh weet, a little higher, sharper sound.

[Sue R]

I really need to think these over with my whistle in my mouth, as I have real issues getting consistency and differing tones. Thank you for this discussion and these ideas of "spelling out" what you are trying to whistle.

[Amelia]

Hello all, Here's a couple things I've learned about whistles the hard way. Your stop/down and/or your steady should not tail off. They should be short and sharp at whatever volume is necessary. Tailing off becomes dead air to a dog and it's stop/steady will resemble your whistle, it will tail off instead of being right now. One of the side effects of a tailing off stop or down is a chronically crooked drive line.

 

Do not make the first note of a flank the same as the first (or only)note of your stop. Pitch doesn't matter, the note does. Whee as a down and Whee as the first note of your comebye will cause the dog not to take a come bye or at the very least, hesitate from confusion.

 

I would suggest that your come bye and away whistles be distinctly different and your down or stop not be the first note of either as well as being short and sharp.

 

Good luck with it.

[Denise Wall]

Since I produced and edited this CD, every word of it is pretty much etched in my mind even now years later. The two most helpful things I can share are:

 

1) Make sure each part (note) of each whistle is distinguishable from any part (note) of any other whistle command. In other words, if you use three notes for an all the way around or full away to me whistle, make sure each one of those three notes sounds different from any part of any of your other whistles. That way, if the dog can only hear one part of the whistle for whatever reason, it'll still know what to do. This requires practice for consistency and ability to produce subtle differences that the dog can distinguish.

 

2) Get a recorder of some kind and record what your whistles sound like out in the field where the dog is hearing them. I'm here to tell you it may blow your mind when you find your whistles don't sound at all like you thought they did.

[Lana]

I would add..... whistle whistle and whistle some more. The only way to get better is practice the whistle a lot! Put your whistle around your neck when doing chores or any time you work dogs. If you forget it walk back in and get it, make it a habit.Keep an extra whistle in your rig.

 

Also if you can whistle with your fingers you can get a much louder and more distinct sound than a whistle. It is tough to use your fingers when your are on an ATV or horse, so best that your dogs get used to both.

 

Lana

[Chesney's Girl]

2) Get a recorder of some kind and record what your whistles sound like out in the field where the dog is hearing them. I'm here to tell you it may blow your mind when you find your whistles don't sound at all like you thought they did.

 

That's really good advice Denise. I didn't realize what my whistles really sounded like until I started recording some of our training stuff. It's made me more aware or tones. I find them more distinct at a distance.

 

Thanks!

[Wendy V]

I use Kent's whistles and had the same problem distinguishing the stop and come-by as you are describing. I resolved the problem by using your first option, that is, pitching the first come-by tone lower than the stop whistle. Also, the third note of the come-by is lower than the starting note, something like, whee-o-weigh. Partial come-by flanks are whee-o. Under stress, the come-by tends to creep up in scale, as does the stop, so I must be aware to keep them distinct.

 

Another issue I find about Kent's whistle suggestions is that the first note of the away-to-me is pitched too low to carry in windy, distant conditions. In those cases, I will pitch it a bit higher. The walk-up whistle is a very flat, neutral tone, but can be jazzed up if needed. I tail off my stop whistle to distinguish from the steady, and I use a short pop of the same tone to communicate a "there", thus by asking for three different behaviors using the same pitch. I'll have to think about what Amelia had to say about the tail and see if it is affecting the drive. Perhaps because the stop whistle is given sharper than the other two, the dogs seem to be able to understand the intent.

[Albion Urdank]

I really need to think these over with my whistle in my mouth, as I have real issues getting consistency and differing tones. Thank you for this discussion and these ideas of "spelling out" what you are trying to whistle.

 

Every whistle has its own peculiar physical texture, even ones of the same design, and I've found it useful , whenver I've started a new whistle, to locate the most comfortable position it can occupy in the mouth, and then let it sit there so that it begins to feel most natural, especially where the upper lip caresses lightly the groovers at the top of the whistle. And the whistle should be held lightly in the mouth while whistling. When you find your comfort zone in this respect, I think that you'll find it easier to get consistency of tones. It also helps to practice whistling while walking, because this always introduces a degree of variability in how the whistle sits in the mouth, rather than practicing simply while driving and remaining physically stationary in the car seat. I developed my own set of whistle commands, and I've found that the steady whistle works well as a varient of the stop: the stop is short-to-moderate in length but ends curtly, while the steady command starts the same way as the stop but tails off. The dog begins to stop when s/he hears the beginning of the steady command, but when the whistle tails off, s/he then continues forward but more slowly.

 

Albion