Bear? You gotta be kidding...

[Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke]

Help me before I make a fool of myself...are Bear (Virginia Black Bear) likely to have dispatched +/- 5 healthy adult sheep? I looked up what they eat, and as a food source, sheep can be on the list, but not likely healthy adults. These sheep have no LSG's, and it's a rural central VA area, but not so far from suburbia.

 

One of my 4-H mom's came to ask me if she could borrow a sheep or two for a live nativity for her church (no, mine are 200 pounds of "outta here"). Her neighbor had sheep. but long-story-short, she let out her dogs one morning and they RAN straight to neighbor's fenceline and wouldn't leave, and when she went out to collect them, she thought the sheep were all sleeping. Repeated the scenario later in the day and she thought the sheep were STILL asleep (not making this up). On closer investigation, the sheep were all dead, not sick-dead, but torn-up-dead. She got in touch with the neighbor and he reported to animal control, who told him it was likely a large predatory animal, and suggested Bear. Animal control carted off all the dead sheep for him.

 

The part of me that might make a fool of myself is the part that wants to ask her if her dogs are on her property all the time and does she keep track of them well enough to know they didn't go over and have a little sheep excitement. One of her dogs was killed last year by something (animal control suggested mountain lion then) it kept going after until it finally got too injured to fix. She has a very small river on the property boundary and has ten acres and no dog containment plan. She also has a healthy beaver community that I thought might have put up a decent enough fight if provoked by a predatory dog, and we have had a healthy coyote population in the past but not so obvious this last year. All her current dogs are Pit crosses, young rescues. This whole scenario seems like a loose dog disaster to me, but not necessarily hers--we have a lot of deer dogs loose around here, and I do recognize AC knows more about their job than I do, so maybe they know of actual cases of Bear causing sheep losses.

 

Tell me bears don't go killing small flocks of sheep to only eat on one? All the sheep were killed, only one eaten on, but with them dead for a bit before the owner knew it, couldn't anything been making use of the bounty? Anyone have any knowledge of bears being a threat to sheep?

[KrisK]

While I don't know about bears in your neck of the woods, I can say that the bears here are unlikely to go on 'killing sprees'. They prefer to eat grasses, small animals, and CARRION....so, quite possibly, a bear came to scavenge after the sheep had been killed by something else. Bears are opportunists...love garbage, and will take the easiest way for getting food. In the spring, right after waking up from their winter hibernation, they might try for fawns, and other new born mammals...but I seriously doubt a bear did the killing in this case. Just my 2 cents worth.

[painted_ponies]

Sounds like to me animal control doesn't want to have to deal with the loose dogs they know to be the actual culprits. Next time it'll be the work of the pink panther.

 

Seriously, I haven't been around sheep that long, but I've always lived where there were bears, and I have never heard of them attacking livestock. I've heard of them killing someone's obstreperous dog, occasionally, but usually in those instances the bear could make a case for self-defense. And they sometimes scare the bejesus out of your horse when you're out riding. But killing sheep? I think I got to call BS on that one.

[Sue R]

When we lived in rural western NYS, a bear supposedly killed a new calf that its mother had stashed up in the woods. The farmer was a country man, born and bred, and a hunter. I would assume that he could recognize bear sign if he saw it.

 

In the same general area, there is a small college. Something got in with the horses (they have a horse program) one night. Tracks and signs pointed to a mountain lion. Those horses had been terrified. None injured but all lathered and white-eyed with fear when morning came and staff checked on them.

 

However, that intance I mentioned was one new calf, maybe already weak or sickly, not a group of healthy, active sheep. My vote would be for dogs or coyotes.

[DTrain]

I have considerable training in bears from my past life. I can tell you for certain that the chance a bear did this is just about zero. A bear will not kill for the sake of killing and this is what this situation sounds like to me. It sounds to me that this was not done for the sake of gaining a meal and the fact all the sheep although dead were found dead together would indicate they were killed for the sake of killing. A wild predator like a bear or cat would have taken one sheep. Your MNR folks are not doing their job and they are badly misinformed. I would bet anything this was done by a pack of dogs. There must have been some signs around the dead sheep of tracks etc. If there is a pack of dogs in the area that are willing to kill somebody needs to find them, they will do it again.

[Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke]

That's why I wanted to ask my friend if she knew what her dogs did with their "free" time. I didn't suggest to her that her dogs did it, but they were the ones who brought her to the scene of the crime and I hate to suggest Animal Control was BSing the neighbor, but it sure sounded like dogs-gone-wild to me too. Even coyote wouldn't kill the whole (albeit tiny) flock just to get a meal, from what little I know.

[Lenajo]

We have limited black bear here, and the LGD's keep them away so I don't know about that...

 

but pre-LGD I will tell you that coyotes do go on a killing spree when they are training up their half grown pups to kill. It looks similar to what you describe. That said, so does dog kills. Domestic dogs are usually too stupid to leave the place after they are done though. They are either still there eating or resting. Sometimes they will even come up to you wagging their tails...as far as they are concerned they have done nothing wrong at all. And they haven't, in dog language.

 

Big cats usually take one animal and drag it away.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Around here, it's prime time for bear and coyote kills. I'm about an hour south of Lynchburg. We've had numerous bear sightings all around so it's not just guesses - a guy in our church saw a pair crossing the highway not too long ago. I don't know about lost stock - even the cattle and horse people I know have livestock guardians (donkeys or llamas).

[Bill Fosher]

From what's been described, I would guess that domestic dogs are the most likely culprit, although I would think that if your friend's dogs had done the deed they wouldn't have just gone to the fenceline but would have gone right back to chow down on their prizes.

 

However, black bears are known to take adult sheep. It would be unlikely that they would kill five but I wouldn't rule it out, particularly in suburbia at this time of year when bears are layering on fat for their winter hibernation. I have seen reports (and horrible photos) of grizzly bear kills where several lactating ewes were killed and only the udders were eaten. One farmer in the next town had a black bear kill a cow for her udder at this time of year.

 

Coyotes will occasionally do damage or kill several sheep in one visit when they are teaching the pups to kill.

 

The hallmarks of domestic dog attacks are:

 

Several animals killed or maimed.

Very little or nothing eaten. A few bites from several dead animals.

Damage to tails, rear legs, and hindquarters. Lots of muscle tearing.

Dead animals are not likely to be gutted, but if they are, there will be evidence of the dogs rolling in the stomach contents.

 

The hallmarks of a coyote teaching pups to hunt are:

Several animals killed or maimed.

One or two animals very thoroughly eaten.

Damage to flanks, necks, and heads.

Animals gutted, stomach contents left to the side and organ meat eaten preferentially.

 

Either type of attack can have some of the characteristics of the other type, but the more you have of one the more likely you are to have the culprit figured out.

[juliepoudrier]

When I "lost" several sheep--later found at the bottom of a deep ditch under a bunch of brush--the locals around here told me that a bear might kill and carry off a sheep, but not several at once. I think the operative words were "carry off," FWIW.

 

J.

[in2adventure]

I agree with everyone else. The likely hood that a black bear would take out that many sheep is REALLY slim. Because of the # of sheep killed and the fact little was eaten, I would guess a ferel pack of domestic dogs. I would think the bear would take advatage of any easy meal though. Where I live in WY, bear very rarely take down an elk or deer by themselves. They wait until a wolf pack takes them down and chases the pack away to get dinner. Another reason not think it's a bear, they usually carry their kill off to a safe place and bury/cover/protect it. Even if it's just dragged up to the bottom of a hillside so they have some cover in one direction.

 

Bears will take full grown livestock and eat just pieces and parts, but it is rare and don't normally don't go on a killing carnage spree just for pieces and parts. Does the neighbor have pics of the dead sheep? Maybe someone can look at the pics and be able to tell what happend. The ACO is an idiot and lazy and needs to get off his/her arse and do their job. If it is a pack of rouge dogs, a lot more than sheep are in danger if they are killing for fun. It needs to be investigted.