Targets/Heeling

[Root Beer]

Have any of you trained heeling using hand targets? And/or a target stick?

[nancy in AZ]

I'm working on it. Jill is a handful on the leash, she's all over the place and constantly pulling. I've come to the conclusion she'll never progress if I continue to walk her with the rest of my pack because it's too hard to be consistent, so it's only solo walks for her until she "gets it" reliably. I've started her on targeting my hand and she picked it up quickly, but she tends to be very hind brain.

[Root Beer]

I've started her on targeting my hand and she picked it up quickly, but she tends to be very hind brain.

 

I've found, also, that my dogs get the targeting itself down pretty quickly. I am going to try using targets to teach verbal cued position for Freestyle (heel, side, face, follow). Speedy has getting in position to hit the target down pat.

 

I'm a bit at an impasse, though, when it comes to fading the target. I'm not sure whether to put the position on cue with the target in place (cue: heel . . . touch) and then fade the target or if I should fade the target to a hand cue and capture position before putting the position cue on the behavior.

 

Also, I want the cue to mean "move into position" both in motion and when we are stationary. I'm not sure if I should break that down into two separate behaviors or train stationary and then add motion as a new criteria for the same behavior.

 

I'm hoping that the use of the targets will help him understand the positions as distinct from one another at a level that neither luring nor shaping has given him. Or, at least, I want to see if that happens!!

[WildFlower]

Can I ask what targeting is? Daisy is a nightmare to walk and am always looking for something that could help with this!

 

Thanks!

[Root Beer]

Targeting is just teaching the dog to hit something with a certain body part. The most common are nose touches either to the hand, an object on the end of a stick, or an object on the ground. Some people, though, teach a lot of different targets like front paws, back paws, shoulder, hip, etc.

 

Once the dog can target, you can use the target behavior to teach another behavior. The most common example is using a nose touch to a plate to teach a contact in Agility.

 

To use the target to teach walking by your side, you first teach a nose touch to the hand on cue. This is usually very simple to teach. Once the dog knows that, stand between a wall and hold your hand out at your side and cue the hand target. Set yourself up so that the dog ends up next to you at your side when you say "touch". You can either click/treat or use a marker word/treat when the dog does the nose touch.

 

Now, from there, I'm not sure of the best way to proceed to fade the target - hence my questions above! The idea, though, is that you use the target to teach the position (next to me on my left or next to me on my right) and teach the dog to maintain the behavior using the targets - which is something I'm interested in learning how to do.

 

For loose leash walking, which is more free form than heeling, it's probably much simpler than what I want to learn for formal training of heeling positions.

 

The thing I like about the idea of using targeting is that it gives the dog more information about what you want during the training process than shaping does, yet it allows the dog to be an active and thinking learner throughout the process in a way that luring does not.

[PSmitty]

Heeling? What's heeling?

 

Oh, I guess some people have better behaved dogs than me!

[momtotwo]

Since our first class on Sunday I have been trying to teach the "touch" command. I'm interested in seeing how this progresses or is used as we move on in the class. Curious to continue reading and see what the other responses are. Kind of feel like a sponge learning from you all!

[ziggzmom]

I've found, also, that my dogs get the targeting itself down pretty quickly. I am going to try using targets to teach verbal cued position for Freestyle (heel, side, face, follow). Speedy has getting in position to hit the target down pat.

 

**I'm using a hand touch(nose touching hand) with obedience heeling, but I don't do freestyle. My boy LOVES the hand touch, which makes me really happy because I can use that in the ring between excercises to keep him focused and as a reward. I'm not really knowlegable about shaping, but kind of just started playing around with the hand targeting and have been happy with the results.

 

 

I'm a bit at an impasse, though, when it comes to fading the target. I'm not sure whether to put the position on cue with the target in place (cue: heel . . . touch) and then fade the target or if I should fade the target to a hand cue and capture position before putting the position cue on the behavior.

 

 

**I taught a hand touch, no target, so don't know if this is helpful....I used my hand to get position then when he was doing that, put a cue to the behavior. I'm also teaching him to watch my eyes when we are heeling. I shift my gaze and he knows that means to speed up, slow down, etc.

 

 

Also, I want the cue to mean "move into position" both in motion and when we are stationary. I'm not sure if I should break that down into two separate behaviors or train stationary and then add motion as a new criteria for the same behavior.

 

 

**I started out stationary, but it wasn't long before he was doing the hand touch in motion. I treated it as a new behavior when he was first doing it in motion. He's not as precise for the hand touch as he is for luring, but it's probably my lack of knowledge on the subject that's the problem-LOL! That's ok, he is understanding my verbal cues, so the precision will be there-eventually=)

 

 

I'm hoping that the use of the targets will help him understand the positions as distinct from one another at a level that neither luring nor shaping has given him. Or, at least, I want to see if that happens!!

 

 

**I'll be interested to see how it goes for you and your dog!

 

 

Happy Training~

 

Janet

[Root Beer]

**I taught a hand touch, no target, so don't know if this is helpful....I used my hand to get position then when he was doing that, put a cue to the behavior.

 

Janet

 

Oh, I mean the same thing. I'm using a hand touch as the target behavior. So did you simply remove your hand completely once the position was on cue?

[Tassie]

Disclaimer: - I am nowhere near consistent enough as a trainer, so while I have an idea about 'how' to do things, I don't necessarily achieve them

 

That said, I do use my left hand as the cue for the formal obedience hand position. It's quite commonly done in UK and here to get focus (head up) heeling. I teach hand targeting in general, and teach the come to heel by luring initially. Then put the two together. So in a way, the hand target remains, except that you're not asking for an actual touch all the time while heeling. The left hand placed at about waist level, becomes the cue for the dog to come to/be at the formal obedience heel position. If you do it properly, the dog should move into that position as soon as he sees the physical cue. (The same with the right hand for heeling on the right.)

 

I use hand targeting for agility too - for recall to side. Dog comes to whichever hand I present.

 

As the hand becoems very important to the dog, it also helps with general walking - I reward randomly when the dog pays attention to me/the hand - helps to avoid pulling.

 

I've played around with a target stick - I have a couple, including a really cool one with a clicker in the handle (useful for klutzes like me) - but I haven't done enough with it to be giving any advice.

[Root Beer]

That said, I do use my left hand as the cue for the formal obedience hand position. It's quite commonly done in UK and here to get focus (head up) heeling. I teach hand targeting in general, and teach the come to heel by luring initially. Then put the two together. So in a way, the hand target remains, except that you're not asking for an actual touch all the time while heeling. The left hand placed at about waist level, becomes the cue for the dog to come to/be at the formal obedience heel position. If you do it properly, the dog should move into that position as soon as he sees the physical cue. (The same with the right hand for heeling on the right.)

 

I use hand targeting for agility too - for recall to side. Dog comes to whichever hand I present.

 

As the hand becoems very important to the dog, it also helps with general walking - I reward randomly when the dog pays attention to me/the hand - helps to avoid pulling.

 

Ah . . . this is why I'm not finding info on fading the target completely.

 

In Freestyle, you can't use a consistent hand cue, nor anything that might "look" like a target. Sometimes you can choreograph a physical cue in, but really the dog needs to understand position and what is expected without the hand in a consistent place.

 

However, that still helps me because transitioning hand signals to verbal (or to choreographed physical cues) is something that I know how to do.

 

So . . . change the target to hand signal and then change the hand signal to verbal.

 

I can do that!! And I'm saying "duh" for not seeing it sooner!!

[Root Beer]

Double Post

[Tassie]

Ah . . . this is why I'm not finding info on fading the target completely.

 

In Freestyle, you can't use a consistent hand cue, nor anything that might "look" like a target. Sometimes you can choreograph a physical cue in, but really the dog needs to understand position and what is expected without the hand in a consistent place.

 

However, that still helps me because transitioning hand signals to verbal (or to choreographed physical cues) is something that I know how to do.

 

So . . . change the target to hand signal and then change the hand signal to verbal.

 

I can do that!! And I'm saying "duh" for not seeing it sooner!!

 

Edited - because I hit the wrong button - or the right button too soon. "Duh" to me too

 

Glad if that made sense and helped Kristine. I wouldn't have recognised the problem, as I didn't know that about Freestyle. We're only just getting started with Dancing with Dogs down here - includes Heelwork to Music and Freestyle - but I'm not familiar with the nitty-gritty of the rules yet. So thanks for that.

[Root Beer]

We're only just getting started with Dancing with Dogs down here - includes Heelwork to Music and Freestyle - but I'm not familiar with the nitty-gritty of the rules yet. So thanks for that.

 

The rules really depend on the organization that you compete under. In England, I believe, obvious targets are allowed in competition. In WCFO, which is the organization we compete in, they aren't.

 

So, you might be allowed more hand signals and targets. It just depends.

[ziggzmom]

Oh, I mean the same thing. I'm using a hand touch as the target behavior. So did you simply remove your hand completely once the position was on cue?

 

 

Hi,

 

This is still a work in progress and I am still randomly using the hand touch. He does respond to the cue nicely, but I think I'll probably keep using the touch randomly since he really loves to do it so much. I'm just playing around with it, but have been happy with it so far. You'll probably pass us up quickly since you have a much better grasp of shaping than I do=)

 

I'll be interested to find out how it goes for you=)

 

Janet

[MickeyDogs]

Like any cues, if the hand is used as a lure or a target it needs to be faded gradually.

 

Once the dog has the general idea of the position on a verbal cue, you could remove the hand and use a clicker or marker word to reinforce the the dog when he is in the correct position (this kinda goes back to the old clicker debate: does the click end the behavior or mark the behavior? In this case, at least in my mind, it marks the behavior.)

 

When the behavior is fairly solid or even when the behavior is solid, the target should occassionally be brought back in during practice to keep the behavior sharp.

 

The dog is learning the position, not a touch.