Border Pup to Aggressive and Hates Strangers

[osioda]

Hi, I have gotten a new pup when he was alittle over 2 months old, he is now 5 months old and to be honest he is the most powerful border I have ever seen, he is not afraid of anything and he hates strangers and goes nuts if someone else steps on the property. He will also chase the chickens and would kill them if he could get ahold of them. Every two weeks I put him with the small calves and does extremely well with them right off, He knows his down and will do it almost immediately, but if he gets on something like chasing the chickens I can not call him off or get him to come back to me, and same with anything else.

I had hoped that with age he will grow out of this aggression, Also he goes nuts with the riding lawn mower around he wants to bark and grab at it, when it is moving, I continue to try an break him of this and he is alittle better but still does it, I can put him on it and take him for a ride with me and he is as happy as can be.

Any help I would appreciate it.

Thanks Stephen

[MaggieDog]

Aggression like you describe in a 5mo pup is something for a veterinary behaviorist, not people on an internet board. Please find a veterinary behaviorist (not just a vet or trainer) and seek their help with this issue ASAP!

[1sheepdoggal]

If he were mine, just as I would with any youngen, child or pup. Id crack him on the arse, put him in time out,(NILIF) and remind him of exactly who it is that makes the decisions on how to behave. He is just a pup thats making wrong decisions, change his mind. 5 months old is a bit young to be having him on stock so often in my estimation. Maybe teach him some OB and manners first. And maybe put a leash on him around the chickens. It sounds to me like he isnt so aggressive, as he simply untrained and needs to be taught some respect. He's just a pup if he's keen to work, that will still be there in a few months, after he has had some manners training and a little ob work. JMO

[Little Bo Boop]

Everything Darci said. I would also add, I would, under no circumstances let your dog around while you mow, especially if he goes for the mower (I have a dog that goes nuts for the mower as well) she gets put up, and thats with either a push mower or riding. And while we're on the safety patrol, its really not a good idea to carry your dog on the mower with you either. I personally know two people who have permanently disfigured children ;-( they thought it was a good idea to let the kids ride along with them, kids fell off...well you can imgagine the rest. Good luck with your pup.

 

Betty

[Lenajo]

Sounds like your normal out of control and unsocialized puppy. He needs rules, structure asap. I would recommend a training class, plus a visit from an inhome trainer to address the home issues.

[osioda]

Thanks for your help, To be honest, I always put him on a leash, around the livestock like chickens an so on, and around the calves, he does excellent when it is just me around and he will always come when called, he knows his down and drops immediately, he knows sit and stay, fetch , stand and walkup. But the problem comes in when around livestock he just forgets everything he pretty well has learned I can get him to down most of the time but as for coming to me he won't, and if he is on a leash with me he will basically drag you across the yard.

You can grap him and and I can hold his face so he only sees me and try to discipline him and he just goes right back to it, I don't like smacking a dog I have tried this and it didn't deter him a bit.

 

And around people he is absolutely great and loves everyone when we are away from home and the farm here, and is as nice as can be but if someone steps foot on the property he goes nuts. I can have him on leash and he won't obey or anything then either, and I am afraid he may snap at someone.

 

Let me ask how do people feel about the Prong Choker, and do any of you recommend it, and should you use these on a border? I am not real crazy about regular choker chains.

 

What is amazing, is I was able to break him of wanting to watch cars going down the road and I have him so he won't even go close to the road, to be honest you can not even drag him to the road, why I was able to get this through him and not the other I don't know.

Thanks

Steve

[Debbie Meier]

I have a few five month old pups here, actually 5, first off, I would never let them loose in the yard when the lawn mower is running, 1. they could get hurt, that one injury could either be the death of them or scare them to the point of never being useful as a working dog. 2. riding the mower gives you no supervision, the dog is doing his own thing and you can't shape correct behaivor when it is offered or discourage bad behaivor when it is offered (hence the attacking the mower, chasing chickens and no recall).

 

I have 1 of my 5 pups that has pretty good recall, he goes out with me when I chore, I supervise his interaction with the stock if he offers, the other day he set his mind to gathering up the chickens, I allowed him to concentrate on his work as long as he treated the chickens correctly, no trapping, no biting, no running them over, and if I called him to me he had to obey. If there were violations I would step in, require that he changes his mind about what he was intending to do, once he made the change I picked him up and ended his interaction, job well done. When I have to do something the requires my full attention I tie him to the fence where he can't get in trouble, this pup sits tied like a pro waiting patiently for my return. I guaranty you that if I left his chicken gathering change from gathering to trapping it will soon be catching followed by killing, the only useful trait with the chickens is gather and being called off, I don't allow anything else at this point, I look for him to focus on one get it to move off then go off to move the others together, I don't want him to lock onto just one and run it around the farm. What I allow and disallow with the chickens has a direct corralation to how he will operate with other stock, I use his desire to gather the chickens to shape the correct behaivors I will need later on sheep, cattle, ducks, geese, etc.

 

Now that I have gone on and on, if you have your pup out with you with stock you need to make sure that each interaction is supporting useful behaivors, at this point allowing his lack of fear to esculate to biting will only teach the pup that each interation means bite. I don't want my pup to need to bite at this point, I don't want the stock to demand that much on him, I don't want to risk the stock winning and my pup loseing confidence. When he is ready, at a later age when he is less fragile and can handle pressure we will work on holding pressure and allow a bite at the right time, but I don't want random play biting, it turns into harrassment, dogs/pups that are harrassing usually don't hear you, they are running on adreneline and having fun. We tend to allow pups to bite because it makes us feel we have the right pup, a pup that has bite, but will that bite be useful, if the only time the pup can bite is when he is excited and playing then no, it's not and should not be encouraged or allowed. If he can hold pressurem let the stock know they need to move off and apply a precise bite at the right time to make his intentions heard and hold his ground after it vs. taking excited chase, then yeah he's right, but I doubt he can do that at 5 months of age, and IMO expecting that is putting to much pressure on the pup.

 

Now is the time for you to work on a basic recall and a stop on the pup, you need to be able to stop him, the key to allowing the right and not allowing the wrong is an ability to stop the dog, if you can't stop him you have no way to show him the difference between right and wrong. He needs to be crated, tied, kenneled up while you are doing your work until you take the time to get a recall on him, once you get a stop/recall you can take him back to work, but his training needs to be priority to the work. Regardless of the dogs age, lack of a stop and recall puts us at a training disadvantage when we go out and try to train them right and wrong around stock. If you don't like the behaivor your pup is displaying stop it, move your feet gather him up and do not allow him to continue, it's kinda that simple. Waiting for the pup to stop doing what he thinks is right, if he didn't think it was right he wouldn't do it, will just give you a stronger will to break.

 

Deb