How working breeds are lost

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I do mean your Mick Denise. I picked him because I've been interested in him since he was quite young and his scope was one of the reasons.

 

I just realized re-reading this, that I never finished this thought.

 

Please note, Mick's "Big Wins" have been limited. When we start putting names in the "red circle" we'd be tempted to start with all the BG, Edgeworth, Fl TC, Winter Olympics, SH, Meeker, Finals winners and possibly just end there.

 

I meant to finish with, "But that would be doing the breed a disservice as dogs are equally proven at a variety of trials, and also at home, and sometimes it's consistent performance that is a clearer sign of a significant contributor to the gene pool, rather than taking all the Big Ones."

[mjk05]

.

[Sue R]

It's a whale of a load different "over there", particularly when it comes to getting to trials. Sure, gas is more expensive but entries are made when you show up and you run, competitors can get to up to three trials in one day, and trials are held all over the place during the season.

 

In the US, you have to pre-enter, it takes a long drive and a long weekend (with plenty of night driving, oftentimes) to participate, and trials are fewer and much further between.

 

As for leaving the farm for a day, I expect that's a whole lot easier than leaving it for several days at a time. I am sure family and friends must pitch in to help when needed.

 

I still admire them very much. They set an extremely high standard for stockwork on the farm and on the trial field.

[Bill Fosher]

What I'd love someone to do is list, as explicitly as possible, these specific traits.

 

That would be telling! And would take away the fun the old farts under the beer tent have debating what it means when we say a dog has "heart" or "power."

[Bill Fosher]

For example, why would a farmer choose a border collie over, let's say, an ACD or Aussie?

 

Because we have work to get done, and we don't always have time to persuade a dog to work with us. There are some Australian Shepherds and Australian Cattle Dogs out there that are useful, but your odds of getting a good working dog out of any given litter are several orders of magnitude higher with Border collies than with other "herding" breeds.

 

Are sheep herding trials important to working farmers or are they considered more entertainment and/or education? If largely the latter, do we want to encourage more border collie enthusiasts to take up recreational herding rather than, say, agility or frisbee? If so, is this realistic, seeing as you need a fairly rural/agricultural location + sheep + professionals to make it happen -- a real luxury for us city folk.

 

There are often debates about the value of trials to the working dog. Some farmers (mostly ones with little or no experience working with dogs) consider them frivolous and the dogs in them to be something of a circus act. But farmers who have been working with dogs for a while can see the value of and need for trials as a selection and improvement tool for the working breed. Personally, I think it's a shame that more farmers and shepherds in North America can't get to trials and polish their skills, but geography and economics are what they are here. Running a sheep farm is usually a seven-day-a-week job, and is also usually a one-person operation.

[afrancis]

That would be telling! And would take away the fun the old farts under the beer tent have debating what it means when we say a dog has "heart" or "power."

 

I figurred.

A.

[Bungalocity]

On 9/7/2008 at 10:30 AM, Denise Wall said:

Several people have asked me to repost this so here it is:

 

Okay, here’s my attempt at explaining what I think happens when working breeds are lost. Assume the border collie is the theoretical breed, where many strong workers existed in the original breeding pool and the need for their work was not lost or reduced over time but instead the dogs became less and less useful for it.

.......

How's this for picking up an old post. Denise, wondering if you're still in here - lost my beautiful boy in Dec to heart disease, his lines were nothing from trial this champ that but this time around I'm researching breeder choices to death.  The Dart Board is maybe the most well illustrated narrative I think I've come across yet.  One thing that surprises me now, is how helpful and 'not insecure' breeders and competitors are. Some top trial champs well known have been selfless with advice, referring me to trainers regionally (Chicagoland) for more advice.   From what I can tell, there's little monetary value in the best 'red circle' pups and all the value is in proven prospects.  So a Gallagher's Cap pup may wind up in an Alberta ranch, worked with other crosses, and perhaps that will train superbly, or not, maybe good enough to be sold for $6k as a yearling useful for commercial stock handling.  The Yellow Circle spinoffs raised by family breeders will still enjoy producing Agility, Goosing, Disc, family pets and active lifestyles.  They're pretty far removed from Red Dot pedigree by this point and while possible they'll be winning trials in USBCHA meets, it's unlikely.  Commercial is still the top-game because it demands top efficiency.  All the fun across the dart board by all works.  It's just a matter of what your intended goals are across that board.  

 

A trainer in Kansas might acquire a pup or yearling from champ sire and dam, maybe cross them himself, get them to an excellent level to make them commercially viable as employees of a ranch or farm, then just like cattle auctions for longhorns, the astute purchaser knows what they're looking for and then a $1500 pup is now $15k.   The Red Dot is safe and well.  Just as a cattle rancher may incorporate a more rugged dog to choose for breeding, and sheep farm may choose for light and nimble. Rancher may select 'nice bite front and rear' and those traits may evolve 'west of Iowa' while east of Missouri we'll see more agile and lighter 40# males. If you'd like a trick dog female that bounces off your shoe to do flips, then you'll see the breeders for agility etc. hovering in the orange-yellow rings and while still ABCA, CBCA, or ISDS - and with 95% of the classic Border Collie traits of mind, drive, focus, and brilliance - they're still a Border Collie.  As long as the Red Dot thrives, and the education like this and other resources is available, the purity of the breed will stay tops.