kelpiegirl Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 I have a 14.5 year old dog who has a grade 3-4 heart murmur. She eats more than anyone else (including my Boxer) and is still a bit thin. I have seen other dogs with heart disease be thin as well- why is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 I dunno. Willow has a grade 4 murmur and is rather thin at 11, but not so thin as to cause worry. I wonder if it has to do with the extra work the heart is doing (since the murmur results from leaking valves, and leaking valves mean the heart has to work harder to pump blood)? Willow was recently put on heart meds and her appetite seems to have decreased somewhat, despite maintaining her normal activity level. I plan to ask my vet about that (loss of appetite).... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 They can't utilize protein from their food as well as a healthy dog so their bodies start breaking down muscle. It's a well recognized problem and dogs in heart failure tend to be fairly easy to spot because they have atrophy of specific muscle groups. Dogs in heart failure need lots of easy to metabolize protein and fish body oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Liz, Is a dog with a fairly severe murmur considered to be "in heart failure"? My vet didn't imply that when we discussed her condition, so now I'm curious. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Not always. Heart failure implies that the heart can no longer cope with the extra demand and it is an end stage condition. Up to the point of "failure" the heart can remodel and handle unusual stresses. Diagnosing a dog in early failure can be difficult, very detailed radiographs, a good history and an echocardiogram are requied. A lot of vets can easily and through no fault of their own miss early failure. If I had an older dog with a murmur I would definitely see a cardiologist. Catching failure early can extend a dog's life for years and once the damage is done it can't be fixed. http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings...02&PID=2987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 That's why I was asking, since I would not have said Willow is in heart failure. Willow's murmur was caught in January and she was recently X-rayed. Her heart is slightly enlarged, but no additional problems noted on the radiograph. She's healthy, fit, and active. We started her on heart meds as my vet said starting early could increase her life expectancy significantly. But her appetite has diminished greatly since going on the meds (Enalapril and furosemide, and since I don't think the latter would affect appetite, I'm wondering about the Enalapril). Now I'm wondering if I should be reassessing her diet as well. (Thaks for the link--good info, though it seems that I am already doing a lot of what it recommends.) I guess that's a question for my holistic vet.... J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Monica Segal in her new book Optimum Nutrition has a good passage on feeding the dog with heart conditions. She specifically addresses heart murmurs in that chapter. she has some interesting comments about the interactions of minerals in relation to metabolism, which I would quote, but I can't find my book. I've been trying to read it in the middle of this crazy busy few weeks and I'll read a bit and then lose the book, then find it again, then read a paragraph and lose it again. But anyway . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Zachary, my miniature schnauzer, has been on Vetmedin (active ingredient is pimobendar) for 4 years now. Because he also had pancreatitis, he is on a restricted diet as well. His weight has remained level at about 8 kg. At 13 1/2, he's active and has a good appetite. He does seem hungry all the time but hasn't lost weight but he doesn't gain either. I know that the medications have certainly improved his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 My 17 year old isn't in heart failure, but she definately has age/chronic disease related muscle wasting, and renal disease. CoQ10 made all the difference for her - combined with a low phosphosus diet for her kidneys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I found the book! Monica Segal points out the importance of potassium in maintaining fluid balance, and proposes that inappetence can reduce potassium intake. Her heart-friendly sample recipes feature potato as a potassium rich carb source, beef, rabbit, and zucchini, among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gail Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Julie said: We started her on heart meds as my vet said starting early could increase her life expectancy significantly. FYI - I had seen a cardiologist with my dog & she told me that while popular opinion was starting heart meds early was beneficial, there was no evidence to back this up. I'm not really sure if there are negatives to starting early though. I never did start heart meds for my dog though. gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Gail, My vet did stipulate that most of the studies indicating increased life expectancy from early treatement were mainly in humans, but that in the past several years there was more evidence that the same approach should apply equally to dogs. Becca, What, no lamb? Maybe I'll have to start raising rabbits after all (though buying beef would probably be easier! Her heart-friendly sample recipes feature potato as a potassium rich carb source, beef, rabbit, and zucchini, among other things. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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