echoskybound Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 My BC is a very motivated and quick learner. He's been learning tricks left and right lately, but he absolutely refuses to learn how to heel. When I attempt to teach him, he won't even look at me, and he won't even listen to any other commands I give him while doing so, not even sit. He completely loses his focus, regardless of what I'm holding right in front of his nose - a tennis ball, a piece of cheese, etc. I someday hope to train him to do freestyle... he'll spin and weave and other fun things, but he refuses to learn to heel :[ Any tips at all would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Have you tried shaping the position with a clicker? That's how I got Maggie's snappy heel and we had to overcome traditional training side effects even! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echoskybound Posted May 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Have you tried shaping the position with a clicker? That's how I got Maggie's snappy heel and we had to overcome traditional training side effects even! He isn't clicker trained unfortunately :[ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat's Dogs Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 I would also try shaping the behavior with a clicker, that would get him heeling before he even realizes what he's doing. He isn't clicker trained unfortunately :[ That really isn't a problem. It takes about 5 minutes to clicker train a dog. Just click then treat, click then treat, click then treat (aka - charging the clicker). And boom! He is clicker trained. That's really all it takes, in short, to clicker train a dog. Just getting the dog to understand that the sound of the click is like the promise that a treat is coming. There is a lot of information online and also several good books about how to properly charge a clicker and use one if you want to go that route... If he is scared of the noise, you can also just use a "maker word" instead of a clicker. My marker word is "Yes!", but other people use things like "Good!" or "Yay!" or even making a clicking sound with their mouth! You use a marker word just like you do a clicker, saying the word when the dog does what you want, then deliver your treat. Sometimes it is easier to use a word so you can keep both hands free, but I do know a lot of people that use them because their dogs didn't like the clicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 You could try this: Put him in a sit facing in front of you and then walk around behind him and end up with him sitting in heel position. Without saying a word, feed him right there and then release. I would do this 5 times daily for a couple of weeks. Once he is comfortable with you doing this, try putting him in a sit and lure him around in a big loop so he ends up in heel position. Without saying a word, feed him there and release. Once he is comfortable with that, you can try taking one step with him in heel. This can be done along a wall if the dog schooches his rear out. Reward after one step and release. From there you can add more steps slowly. I would wait until he is walking in heel comfortably 7 - 10 steps before adding a cue. Since you are interested in Freestyle, be sure to repeat the exercise with him on your right. Ideally the dog should be equally comfortable and proficient on the left and the right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggzmom Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 My BC is a very motivated and quick learner. He's been learning tricks left and right lately, but he absolutely refuses to learn how to heel. When I attempt to teach him, he won't even look at me, and he won't even listen to any other commands I give him while doing so, not even sit. He completely loses his focus, regardless of what I'm holding right in front of his nose - a tennis ball, a piece of cheese, etc. I someday hope to train him to do freestyle... he'll spin and weave and other fun things, but he refuses to learn to heel :[ Any tips at all would be great. I'm curious about something....You say he's learning tricks very quickly but refuses to learn to heel....Heeling should just be another 'trick', so is it possible that you're going about training heeling differently than you're teaching him the tricks? Regarding food treats...If he doesn't like cheese, try something that 'to him' is higher value. Maybe liverwerst, roast beef, chicken, cheerios, cheetoes, whatever makes him do backflips-lol....I can remember hearing about someone that had a dog that LOVED lettuce, so her dog got lettuce as a reward. Don't know if she liked crutons=) Good Luck and Happy Heeling~ Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsofmenace Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 I agree that heeling should just be another trick to him. When you train tricks, you might have a different attitude than when you train heeling or other "serious" obedience things. Try to keep it upbeat and happy. At this point he might think heeling is something negative since he's only have negative experiences with it. What I would do is just mark him, with a clicker or just verbally, for being in heel position. You don't have to lure him into it, just throughout the day whenever he happens to be in or near heel position reward him for it. Don't try any actually heeling with him yet. When he's comfortable being at your side, you can gradually start to add movement. Maybe the first time you just take a step. If he stays with you, have a party and quit. Keep your sessions short and end them when he's still enthusiastic. You can build up the length of time gradually. Heeling for most dogs is just bo-ring! You have to make it fun for him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 A similar topic came up recently and there were lots of great tips in this thread: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...&hl=heeling Heeling is a difficult skill and it takes time to learn to do it with precision. My dog took weeks to get somewhat proficient at it. You didn't describe what you are doing, but I've never had any success teaching heeling by asking for everything at once--proper posision, attention, automatic sits, etc. Holding the dog in position at your side teaches nothing! You have to build it step by step. I first teach the position--sitting by my side. A clicker is useful but not necessary. You can lure him to your side either by bringing him behind you or having him make a u-turn at your left side, then ask him to sit and reward him. Crooked is okay at first, gradually build the precision. Eventually add the command and when the dog is coming to sit at your side when you give the command, then and only then is it time to add walking. Ask him to heel (come and sit at your side), take one step forward and ask him to heel again. He should move forward a step to sit at your side, since this is what heel means to him. No rapt attention on your face is required at this point. Gradually work up to several steps. He will sit at your side when you stop--if he doesn't you can remind him with a "sit" command. When this is proficient, then start asking him for attention at the same time. It helps to have a "watch me" command down already. Begin with him just sitting at your side and give your "watch me" command. Reward. Then work up to taking actual steps, one at a time. I can't imagine that it is natural for a dog to walk without looking where he is going, it could easily be making him nervous! So, one step at a time, when you add something new go back to baby steps, and don't expect perfection at first. Reward successive approximations. Keep in mind, this is how I teach heel and I don't compete in obedience or anything, but this will produce a functional, happy heel, at the very least. As for not responding to commands when you have him in heel position, remember, the dog's interpretation of a command and ours are not always the same. The dog may very well be thinking, "how do you expect me to sit when you are holding me here by your side--I'm supposed to sit in front of you!!" You may just have to start the training process all over again when you ask for familiar commands in a different setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Have you tried shaping the position with a clicker? It can work too well, though. I taught Kye the position aiming for a light touch with his shoulder on my leg and now have a dog that sticks like superglue and nearly pushes me over. Traditional trainers wouldn't believe it was done in a few minutes and off lead. I have had a bit of trouble getting a more relaxed head carriage that would help him ease off my leg a bit but what is working is the canine equivalent of join up which encourages him to find the position himself. I just walk around apparently aimlessly but always positioned to make it easy for him to follow and join on my left. He's a collie after all. This person wandering around needs herding. Instead of trying to fix his awkward head position, I've changed the exercise to something new. Just doing it for fun though - no thought of competing with him. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echoskybound Posted June 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 I'm curious about something....You say he's learning tricks very quickly but refuses to learn to heel....Heeling should just be another 'trick', so is it possible that you're going about training heeling differently than you're teaching him the tricks? Regarding food treats...If he doesn't like cheese, try something that 'to him' is higher value. Maybe liverwerst, roast beef, chicken, cheerios, cheetoes, whatever makes him do backflips-lol....I can remember hearing about someone that had a dog that LOVED lettuce, so her dog got lettuce as a reward. Don't know if she liked crutons=) Good Luck and Happy Heeling~ Janet lol, my old Doberman LOVES lettuce.. he eats it out of the garden unfortunately, lol. Apparently, some older dogs crave greens because they need the fiber. My BC likes cheese, and he learned other simple tricks like spinning in circles and weaving through my legs just by following a piece of cheese. He'll follow it if I hold it by his nose and walk too, but then I don't think he's really getting the point of heeling. I'm not sure how the heeling is different than training him to do normal tricks. I'm a little more confused about when to use the clicker, because i started with him in a sit position, then told him to come when I started to move, then as soon as he got up and took a step I'd click and give him a treat, but then once I started trying to take more steps, he couldn't figure out why the click was delayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echoskybound Posted June 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 This is great advice. I'll start using it right away. Hopefully he won't even know that I'm trying to train him to heel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggzmom Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 This is great advice. I'll start using it right away. Hopefully he won't even know that I'm trying to train him to heel Hi, Here is a link with information that you might find helpful.... http://www.dogpatch.org/training/choose.html Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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