Low Drive/Medium Drive/Hyper Drive?

[Allie Oop]

The post about the woman who was looking for BC with "low" energy drive made me wonder -- how do you determine what kind of "drive" a BC has? Is there some kind of standard or criteria for that determination? It seems that this is something that is mostly subjective and would vary based on experience.

 

The rescue that I got Allie from said that Allie had a moderate energy level. I think that I would agree with that assessment, but I don't have any basis for comparison. She is the Energizer Bunny most of the time (puppy zoomies galore even at 1 yr. and she's always underfoot. ), but she has a great off/on switch.

 

However, an acquaintance with a 9 mo. old BC pup was told by the breeder that her dog had a fairly low energy level (I think she got him at about 12 weeks), but he is driving her crazy as he is a busy, busy boy and she wasn't expecting it.

 

I do think that rescues and folks that work/own multiple BCs would be the best judges, but is there some kind of guideline?

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I had my hand slapped HARD a long time ago when I used the term "drive" on sheepdog-l. It was right after the BC wars and I guess folks were a bit, er, touchy. I was posting a cry for help because the two dogs I had trained before were "lower drive" and my new youngster was really keen - but I didn't know the word for it - and I couldn't stop him on the sheep.

 

I've since learned that there was some basis for the correction, though it could have been delivered a bit less sharply (I wasn't being hypersensitive, either, I actually got some private commiseration from several people including the marvelous and much-lamented Jim Varnon - and he wasn't a pussyfooter himself!). To wit, a dog's capacity for work or formal training is a seperate function from its need for training, interaction, or stimulation. Does that make sense?

 

My Ben is about the most laid back dog you can imagine. He thinks flyball is an excuse to go visit the box or line judges. He'd visit the officiating judge, too, but he or she always looks so busy during a race, you know.

 

He's not exactly a powerhouse on sheep, either, but he gets the job done. He has a normal Border collie capacity to stick to a job, work through problems, and physically exert himself through thick and thin. Drive? The term just doesn't fit somehow but he certainly has a nearly unlimited potential to work. He can work an Open sized course if I walk the drive with him. But if he were a rescue I would classify him as suitable for a companion home.

 

I had another dog that had severe limits on her potential to work. She was a nice dog in a lot of ways but she just couldn't take pressure - seriously my-way-or-the-highway attitude. If you saw her work sheep you'd say "low drive" because she sulked around like there was lead on her feet.

 

I did flyball with her and never realized half her potential there. She had a very HOT personality and a hair trigger, great for sports - but lousy for a companion home - and lousy for sheep too (coincidence? I wonder). In fact, she ended up chasing birds off airport runways for a living because she NEEDED so much stimulation. She now works hours and hours a day working a mile or more from her handlers and I'm pleased that we were able to turn all that need for speed to the public service. But you'd never know it from seeing her - she's a quiet, grumpy, sulky dog who seems quite happy to lie wrapped up in her own thoughts.

 

Ben has always been serious and mellow. So was Trim. They ended up VERY different dogs that would have had extremely varied success in companion homes. It's one thing that scares me about placing pups or young dogs - and I always try to warn adopters that I could be WRONG if I'm guessing that a dog has a lower need for structured activity, work, etc - and I always ask what their Plan B would be if the dog should change drastically.

 

I don't know whether this helps. One other thing - I used the terms "Companion", "Active Companion" "Sport/Competitor" and "Working Only" to give people a hint at what I felt the the dog's needs would be. The descriptions were oriented towards needs also (though it seemed like few people payed much attention to the actual descriptions ). Active Companion, for instance, meant that the dog HAD to get some structured activity on a daily basis and some formal training. Sport meant the dog HAD to be active in some sport, not that the dog could do sports.

 

I will admit that I did include service, public safety, or law enforcement in "Work" but this was in the context of the dog's needs. I did, by the way, place one service dog and one bomb sniffer - the last was really surprising and was done after quite a lot of soul searching. But I reasoned that the dog was probably in much less danger than the numerous cattle-working dogs I've placed.

[airbear]

Both of my border collies have excellent "off switches" and generally hold down the carpet for 20 hours a day. I wouldn't know how to describe their 'drive' as it depends on their activity. Wick loves to chase the ball, but tennis balls in the house sit unmolested in a basket. Does this mean she has ball drive?

 

Anyway, I have seen these "hyper" border collies before, and I don't think it has anything to do with "drive" as much as being spoiled and overindulged.

[Allie Oop]

Thanks for your post, Rebecca! I really like the terms

"Companion", "Active Companion" "Sport/Competitor" and "Working Only"

I tend to agree that "drive" and the "energy/activity level" are not the same thing.

 

Allie's rescue did not use the term "drive". They indicated that she was a very active young dog who would benefit greatly from getting formal training and who would be excellent at most dog sports because she was very fast and agile. I think I got the "moderate" reply when I asked them how intense her energy level was. She is probably somewhere between an "Active Companion and Sport/Competitor".

[Beth G]

My two love the ball too. But are content with 1-2 hrs of excercise a day and then they are mellow. Now if they don't get that then they will tear down the house. Like on days when I am late walking them to the park...lol.

[Meg's mum]

I am reminded of my 'if I ruled the world' rants about pedagogy. I can hear myself: "I lean toward the Platonic approach of early identification of talents and placement of children with those that can bring the 'best' out of them".

 

When Meg is old enough to be evaluated, who will 'evalutate' her, and how will I manage whatever judgement is passed? She is the light of my life and I'm not sure I could give her up to someone more capable of fullfilling her needs and making use of her capacity as a 'this dog' or a 'that dog'. It was hard enough to hand over my old girl to death - not much choice there.

 

I respect the gist of this and the interest in this topic and I know I have no idea what Meg at nearly 7 months will be like when she's a year or 18 months old. Just now,quite frankly, its all I can do to sit here worrying about managing her restricted activity while she recovers from a spay and worrying about the foxtails in the lower pasture and how I had her walking through them on an adventure.

 

Having had two BC's in my life of vastly different energy levels, and having afforded them about the same amount of activity I have to say that BC's seem rather elastic and forgiving of imperfect placement.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

BC's seem rather elastic and forgiving of imperfect placement.

This is quite true. The point of this discussion in the context of rescue, however, is to identify the expectations of the potential home, not put the dog in an inflexible box. The categories were dialog starters (speaking of Plato). My concern was always with homes that wanted to "bargain down" and I was always looking for the homes that were realistic and, preferably, flexible.

 

Border collies are very forgiving up to a point, if improperly placed. Heck, they are dogs - they have no capacity at all for blame-laying. The issue is with people who cannot deal with the consequences of an expectation gone awry - an "Active Companion" that suddenly demonstrates symptoms of boredom in spite of two walks a day and frisbee at the park. A "Sport Competitor" that can't make the grade but still needs an outlet for its energy - maybe lessons working livestock and trialing.

 

And then of course this all falls almost completely outside the working/training paradigm, as several people have pointed out.

 

Border collies just don't go in boxes well.