Question for those of you w/ sheep or other livestock?

[Nik]

In the thread about people who move to the country someone mentioned (if I recall correctly anyway) that most people don't realize that it is dangerous for the sheep to be ran. Why is it dangerous? Also, if that's the case then how do you control them w/ dogs to the point of the dog not running them. I don't know a thing about sheep, but it would seem that at some point they would end up running from a dog, even if its one that is working them. Am I wrong about this? Please explain so I can better understand how this works.

[NRhodes]

Sheep will die from exertion, they'll break their necks running headlong into fences trying to get away, etc. It's very stressful for them. Think if a bear was chasing you? That's about how it'd be for a sheep running from a dog that's chasing it.

 

Now, the big difference between stockdogs and just plain dogs chasing stock is that stockdogs aren't bred to CHASE, they're bred to HERD, which is to say, they're bred to hold together and move stock which involves a lot of things. A dog needs to be able to stay far enough away from stock (and this varies a LOT with different stock, sheep, cattle, and even lots of differences between one type of sheep from another) to move them without blowing everything apart and sending things running and to move is such a way as to hold a group together. With some stock this distance is a LONG way, with others the distance might be a foot away.

[juliepoudrier]

Nicki,

The difference is that when a strange dog is running sheep, the sheep are running because they are in a panic and being chased. Panicked sheep often inadvertently kill themselves running into fences (and thereby breaking their necks). Similarly, you can run sheep to exhaustion, at which point they just give up. If the dog chasing them has any desire to hurt them beyond running them, once the sheep lie down in exhaustion, the dog can have at it. Less traumatic, but also bad is that running and stressing sheep causes them to lose weight (lost weight means less market value) and makes them susceptible to disease (stress = lower immune system response = disease susceptibility).

 

Now sheep will also run when being worked by a dog, and in some cases they could be running in a panic (sheep will hit fences when being *worked* by dogs too). But in those cases, the *human* part of the equation should recognize the problem and step in to correct it. Sheep occasionally running or running because of a draw (maybe running to the best part of the pasture or to the feed bunks) is not harmful for them. What is bad is being chased to the point that physical health consequences result.

 

J.

[IronHorse]

I liked your explanation in another thread Julie,the one where you mention how the stock have a "safe zone" bubble around them.

I look at a herding dog (one that is working the stock) as knowing just where that bubble is with the paticular stock and respects it in order to move the stock as they are directed.

Now the way I would explain a stock chasing dog is a dog that pierces that bubble casing it to basically explode sending the stock into a panic mode of flight.

The herding dog knows how to move the bubble without popping it or to seperate it into different bubbles all depending on what the stock is being worked to do.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

What you'll see when a good dog is moving stock that are used to being worked by dogs, is the dog quietly in control and the sheep trusting the dog enough to slip away in the direction that is not "covered" by the dog. The sheep set their own pace, pretty much. They walk away because it's their instinct to get to a safe distance from a predator, but they are not in a panic because they understand that the dog won't harm them as long as they choose a direction that is left open to them. They may jog, but it is a similar pace to what I see every morning when I go out to feed.

 

Everyone lifts their heads and starts trotting or even cantering down the hill, heads and shoulders relaxed and looking around for their buddies and calling to them "Hey, it's feeding time - don't get left behind!" Or when they all move down to the pond to water, the same thing happens. A larger flock tends to move at a somewhat faster pace if they are moving with some purpose in mind.

 

A panicked sheep has it's head thrown back into a position which reduces forward vision, shoulders stiff and less able to maneuver safely. Even if nothing happens, a small amount of stress can set back weight gains on slaughter lambs, overheat and reduce virility on rams, reduce milk output on lactating mothers, and seriously damage pregnant ewes to the point that they will slip their lambs (miscarry).

 

Running in cold windy weather and then resting in ammonia-laden loafing areas can bring on pneumonia in young or stressed animals. And running a sheep that is carrying a heavy load of worms can kill it quite dead, way before the tolerance level of a healthy sheep. In about two days the parasites are going to bust loose here and I'm going to stop working my young sheep altogether until I've wormed and rotated them to clean pasture a couple times.

[Nik]

Ahhh...thanks for explaining. I guess I just misunderstood what was being said. I took it as the running itself would harm the sheep, not the running to the point of exhaustion.

 

I've always understood the part about weight loss and such. My grandpa raised cattle for many years. Now I have a little more clearer understanding about sheep.