blackacre Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hey, I wanted to post a link to the pictures that our friend Larry Jackson took at the Kelpie only clinic with Scott Glen that we held on October 12 to 14 at Sheri Prucell's farm in Pickering, Ontario. (OK, there was one Cattle Dog and a couple of border collies too). My dog Nap did the honours as chore dog all weekend. ISN'T he CUTE?!?!?! Hugh Grant, Sheri's significant other and his sister Karen, Larry's wife, did a tremendous job preparing nutritious and healthful breakfasts, lunches and a blow-out Saturday night dinner. As for the dogs, there wasn't a dud amongst them. Every one of them made great progress under Scott's watchful tutelage. Every handler learned something too: Scott takes the time to make sure that the handler understands what he's trying to do and goes away with a toolbox of training techniques. Participants were clamouring for a repeat event next year. Well, maybe . . . first we have to recover from this one. Saturday night dinner was preceded by an inaugural meeting of the WAKC (Working Australian Kelpie Club) of Canada; most of the participants chose to join on the spot, while I am told that more memberships are arriving daily. Contact Gina McDonell for more information. Anyway, to the main event: http://www.kodakgallery.com/editorialedge/...s/kelpie_clinic It's a nice site; I found the slideshow feature particularly convenient, since there are lots of pictures. The shuffle feature is cool too. KELPIES RULE! (Well, that weekend they carried the day on numbers anyway ) Andrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hey, great pics! I enjoyed those. 'Specially the "hey, look at me, sittin' on some sheep" shots. And yes, Nap is CUTE! Tell me about Kelpies, do they work like ACDs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Yes, the backing lesson was really popular. It was interesting to see which dogs took to it right away. In four or five goes, both before and during the actual clinic, Sheri's Wylie was racing across the sheep's backs and tearing back under the sheep faster than she could be directed. She totally 'got it'. Undoubtedly something instinctive, which would make sense of course, given the concentration of Chris Stapleton's breeding in her background. Other than that, Kelpies work a lot like border collies. A Kelpie qualified for the USBCHA Nationals a few years ago and did very well. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Andrea - Great photos! Some gorgeous dogs! I didn't know Scott worked with Kelpies. How cool! That looked like a great setup for backing. And was that a Maltese cross I saw made out of wood pallets? I love the "Ewe Haul"!!!! Ok ... what gives with the Jolly Green Giant? LOL!!! Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 I *meant* to ask that, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hugh Grant was there??? Did you get his autograph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 What they were doing was learning to "back". In Australia, they have BIG sheep stations- and L.O.T.S. of sheep, who all will need to be put through a race at one point (basically a long chute) and will need to be moved ahead through them. You need a dog who can be in with the sheep, and get to the back of the line and move them forward, so that you can work with the next group. You need a dog to be comfy squished in and amongst the sheep, and be able to drop down at the end of the line and move them forward- even bring him to the middle, and drop down and push the front half. This is NOT for weak dogs. This is also NOT for grippy dogs- wool is too valuable for that. You also need a dog who will drop down right in front of the sheep in the race, and stare down that group staring at him- and not let them push forward. The sheep can't turn, so it is a real test of wills. No, Kelpies do NOT work like cattle dogs. Cattle dogs are not natural gatherers. Kelpies, like Border Collies are gathering dogs. They should all be born with a natural outrun, and good break out. They are the pre-eminent sheep dog in Australia, and they out # us in millions of acres and sheep- so, it is not by accident that they are so needed and valued. Here is a video of a 6 month old, with no training. It's funny how so many people think Kelpies are some sort of cattle dog- when the well bred Kelpies are every bit as honest, clean, and useful as BCs. More and more of us are training our dogs to run in usbcha trials, and some of us are doing VERY well. A hint to their quality, would be that Scott Glenn would give them their own clinic Hey, great pics! I enjoyed those. 'Specially the "hey, look at me, sittin' on some sheep" shots. And yes, Nap is CUTE! Tell me about Kelpies, do they work like ACDs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 The Jolly Green Giant was the post. Hey, it's coming up to Hallowe'en and he wanted to come as . . . himself. As the days wore on, first he turned his back on us, then he lost one leg, then the other . . . I finally had to carry him off the field in, er, pieces, poor fellow. And as for autographs, as this Hugh Grant likes to say, "You must be talking about the OTHER Hugh Grant." A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 No, Kelpies do NOT work like cattle dogs. Cattle dogs are not natural gatherers. Kelpies, like Border Collies are gathering dogs. They should all be born with a natural outrun, and good break out. They are the pre-eminent sheep dog in Australia, and they out # us in millions of acres and sheep- so, it is not by accident that they are so needed and valued. <snip> It's funny how so many people think Kelpies are some sort of cattle dog- when the well bred Kelpies are every bit as honest, clean, and useful as BCs. More and more of us are training our dogs to run in usbcha trials, and some of us are doing VERY well. A hint to their quality, would be that Scott Glenn would give them their own clinic Thank you for the further explanation, though I kinda already figured out the backing part, it's nice to hear more about it. I'm sure you didn't mean me , because I know that Kelpies aren't some kind of cattle dog. I asked if they worked *like* a cattle dog, since I hadn't seen one work before. No doubt they are quality dogs, I find them quite interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berocca Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yes, Kelpies are definitely the preferred dog in Australia. Where I train there are only a handful of border collies, 2 or 3 cattle dogs and the rest are Kelpies. Only 1 trainer has border collies the rest are all kelpies. Unfortunately conformation showing has ruined kelpies even more than it has border collies as a show kelpie can be almost double the size of a working kelpie and are usually much stockier. Basically, while you may still find a few useful show border collies every so often you will never find a useful show kelpie. At least not one that is useful as a kelpie, if the instinct happens to pop up you could use them like a BC is suppose. There is absolutely no way in hell that you could send a show kelpie across the backs of a run of sheep, or down through their legs- they just wouldnt fit! Usually you would introduce them to a sheeps back at an early age where they learn to balance and shift their weight. Putting a grown kelpie onto backs for the first time is much harder, although the naturals will still take to it like a duck to water. In my experience Kelpies are much more like BCs. They crouch, have a similar "eye" stare and will naturally gather sheep. They hold their distance better than cattle dogs too. It was a great relief when I first got Charlie that it was the kelpie side that came out in his work and not the cattle side. Too bad they make shocking agility dogs- there is nothing natural about the way a kelpie jumps Some never realise that it is easier to jump 2 legs first and not all 4 at once and those that do usually end up with legs thrown sporadically in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I guess it is semantics- when someone asks "do they work like cattle dogs?" to me, that person is coming from the standpoint that they are...." Sorry if I misconstrued. It's rather like asking if a border collie works like a cattle dog.... And, no, the Kelpies are not closely related to the cattle dog- they are more closely related to the progenitors of the BC, the Smithfield Collie. I have put videos up of kelpies working, hopefully the question of whether they "work like cattle dogs" will be put to rest. Thanks Berocca for writing about the Kelpies and show Kelpies. The show Kelpie is not a working dog- but they are not all that large- I have one who is 23 lbs. It all depends on the breeding, but it is true, by and large that they can look like chocolate dipped cattle dogs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I guess it is semantics- when someone asks "do they work like cattle dogs?" to me, that person is coming from the standpoint that they are...." Sorry if I misconstrued. It's rather like asking if a border collie works like a cattle dog.... And, no, the Kelpies are not closely related to the cattle dog- they are more closely related to the progenitors of the BC, the Smithfield Collie. I have put videos up of kelpies working, hopefully the question of whether they "work like cattle dogs" will be put to rest. Thanks Berocca for writing about the Kelpies and show Kelpies. The show Kelpie is not a working dog- but they are not all that large- I have one who is 23 lbs. It all depends on the breeding, but it is true, by and large that they can look like chocolate dipped cattle dogs.... Goodness, Julie. No offense intended, but you sure seem a bit sensitive lately. I suppose I should have done my research, rather than ask. Or, I suppose I should have said "How do they work" rather than "Do they work like ACD?", if that implied I thought they were cattle dogs or related to cattle dogs. Now that I've watched the video you linked, I can see how they work, and yes, just like a BC. Obviously I wished I had seen a video before asking such a stupid question. Thanks for the education, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I didn't mean to sound snappish- I just get weary of people thinking they are cattle dogs- this is a general weariness, not directed at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berocca Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 they can look like chocolate dipped cattle dogs.... :D That is the best description I think I have ever heard. Sums them up perfectly lol. We had a lady bring 2 show kelpie puppies (bout 6mnths old) as she had seen something in them that none of the other dogs had. These dogs had nothing but Ch dogs in their lines for about 5 or 6 generations but by god they certainly showed promise. The trainers were definitely impressed with them and prepared to keep working with them. Im not sure how they ended up going though as I snapped my ACL the next week and Cody was killed before I got a chance to get back into training. It was about a year before I got down there with Delta and Charlie and I havent seen them again. They were both very short, stocky, solid liver coloured dogs and could have easily been mistaken for cattle mixes (until you actually saw them with the sheep, then there was no mistaking the breed). So I could see how some people could think they were related to ACDs based on looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Andrea.... Is that pumpkinhead in that crowd??? May is ready to come over to your place and I can trade for pumpkinhead... The clinic looked great, loved the pictures. I need another Scott clinic fix...maybe next year BTW: Andrea and I both did Non compete runs at Butternut this past weekend. Not only is Nap handsome, he did a very good job on the fairly light North countries...Andrea was a bit concerned about the long outrun (ie, i could barely see the sheep) but Nap handled it all in stride! Not bad for a pretty dog! Sam if you are listening...Libby did ok, lost her sheep to the set out on Saturday....and I had retired when she started bringing them to me off the set out...I obviously didn't have enough confidence in her. She fetched them back to the exhaust taking every flank and made her panels (in a straight line to the exhaust ) Sunday, we got our sheep, fetch wasn't too bad, back on line about 1/2 way, didn't want to take the away flank but I also didn't want to lie her down, first leg of the drive was good turned and Libby followed them all the way to set out....oh well, there is always next week..non dog broke sheep....just what Libby loves. Cynthia P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted October 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Not only is Nap handsome, he did a very good job on the fairly light North countries...Andrea was a bit concerned about the long outrun (ie, i could barely see the sheep) but Nap handled it all in stride! Not bad for a pretty dog! Awwww! Thanks Cyn! He did a damned good job, didn't he? 500+ yard outrun on a flat field, patches of brilliant sun and cloud, gusting wind straight into our faces. He got out there with only one or two redirects, brought them straight as an arrow and then took every command. Every mistake was mine and mine alone. I was ever so proud! Love the Nappy! Good on the Buff Puff and Libby too! A PS Pumpkin Head has a ticket to ride unless you get her soon. She might even be bred to the Scottie ram we brought in. Actually, we're pretty well done with him too if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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