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Phoebe and Pip go a'trialin'!


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This is copied from an e-mail I sent to a friend who heard (from a little bird, no doubt) that I had gotten a wild hair at the Montpelier trial this past weekend and pulled my open dog so I could run the pups. I figured that since plenty of folks have been posting about their first trial "trials and tribulations," I would share our weekend adventure so you can see that open handlers can be humiliated by our youngsters too!

 

So here goes:

I'm meaning to post about Phoebe and Pip's adventures on the BC Boards, but haven’t gotten around to it this morning. After pushing sheep out with Twist (Susan Rhoades's sheep) and realizing how hot it was going to be in the afternoon, and seeing how heavy (at least mostly completely disinclined to run, at least on Saturday morning) they were, I thought it might be more fun to pull Twist (Kat's been intermittently lame, so I wasn't going to run her at all) and try the pups just to give them a chance to work on a different field, with different sheep, under different circumstances.

 

Lark did a very nice job the first day, although she was a bit tight on her outrun, which caused the sheep to lift sideways and miss the fetch panels (they were set pretty close behind the panels, so there was no way to save it after lifting offline). Our drive was a little wobbly, but she took the correct flanks, and penning was a breeze (I think you couldn't have stopped them from going in if you tried, well, except for a few novice runs anyway). We ended up third. Exhaust was in the old spot at the top corner under the trees instead of in the bottom corner, and by Sunday the sheep were pissier, more inclined to run, and knew where the exhaust was. I sent Lark right instead of left (even though logic would have said send left to cover the draw to the exhaust, I figured we're at a learning stage and she needs to be able to run out in both directions and since it was left on Saturday, she was going right on Sunday) and she did a beautiful outrun and lift. The sheep tried to bolt for the exhaust and we held them, but I wouldn't let her come all the way around to their heads and turn them since we had had so many problems with her winging around to the heads not too long ago. So instead I just worked on training, small flanks and stops when asked, so that the sheep got to my feet, but it was more of a banana than a nice straight line. She took one wrong flank on the drive, and although we made the panels and pen, the whole thing was just sloppy enough to put us out of the ribbons. But I was happy and thought I had done the right thing to work on the small flanks rather than letting her do the winging thing.

 

On Saturday the judge asked me how old she was and I joked with Tony that I should have said "6 months" so everyone would have been suitably impressed with her and my talents! :rolleyes:

 

I ran Phoebe on Saturday and Pip on Sunday (since we were limited to two dogs). Phoebe was tight on her outrun (I sent her left because that's her preferred side, even though I knew the hill on that side would draw her in, since I figured she'd fight me if I tried to send her right.) The sheep were held just to the other side of the fetch panels. When she got just in front of the fetch panels, she kicked out and came in very nicely behind them without disturbing them. Then the amazing thing happened. I gave her nothing but whistle commands, and she took every stop and every flank and had a *beautiful* straight fetch down the field. And that was the end of the good stuff. Well, no, we had a good tight turn around the post too. After that it fell apart. The sheep were heavy to their right (toward the pen) and I couldn't get Phoebe to take that off balance flank to fix it. So I left the post and tried to call her to me to fix the line, but she was having none of that--she was driving them by golly and it didn't matter which direction. She then went to their heads and brought them back to me and I tried starting her off again, but again she was so intent on the sheep that she wasn't hearing anything I said, so I took them to the pen and put them in. And that was the end of the run. Well, Dan King, who was exhausting the sheep (and this was the end of the class, so we weren't holding things up) asked if I wanted to try and drive them to the exhaust (since they weren't running up there on Saturday), but Phoebe was too wound up to listen so I pretty quickly gave up on that idea. I was really happy with a lot of what she did, and couldn't be upset over the drive (or lack thereof) since off balance flanks aren't exactly her forte yet and it was a tougher situation than anything she's done at home. She was quite proud of herself! And I wasn't embarrassed (at least not yet).

 

So Sunday was Pip's turn. He was definitely not a star. The sheep were more difficult, but I thought he'd manage to get out there and get them to me at least. Since sending right was less likely to cause a tight outrun, that's the way I sent him. He started out very nicely, and then crossed about halfway up the field. I actually stopped him before he crossed, but there was no way he was going to kick back out at that point. So he crossed but then was going plenty wide enough not to disturb the sheep. Then he got between 10 and 11 o'clock, and suddenly threw his head up and slammed on the brakes, having apparently just noticed Tom and Pete there. He looked down the field at me like "WTF?" I flanked him and he went on around (took two flanks), but the sheep had their heads buried in the feed pan and he didn't know what to do about that. I could see tension building, and Tom took the feed pan away, at which point Pip lifted the sheep at mach speed (I saw the dive and attempted grip coming and yelled a correction, which made him check up and the sheep came back together and started down the field at 90 miles an hour). He wasn't taking any lie downs, so I ran up the field to meet him. About halfway there, he decided that I was serious about wanting him to lie down. Once he did, the sheep settled and we did a very nice wear back to the post. He did a pretty little turn (hey, they hadn't pulled hooked me off the field yet!) but then the sheep bolted for the exhaust and it was clear there wasn't going to be anything but a big chase, so I called him off.

 

And that was Phoebe and Pip's great trialing adventure.

 

Sorry I don't have any pictures to share. I'm still smiling over how well Phoebe took her whistles a the top and on her fetch. And now I know where we'll need to do more work too....

 

J.

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Sounds to me like you all did quite respectably! I wish I could have been there to see it. :D

 

Then he got between 10 and 11 o'clock, and suddenly threw his head up and slammed on the brakes, having apparently just noticed Tom and Pete there. He looked down the field at me like "WTF?"

 

I totally can picture this look in my head. :rolleyes:

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Sounds to me like you all did quite respectably! I wish I could have been there to see it. :D

 

Well, you see, my thought was that this little tale might be an inspiration to you. I'd be willing to bet big bucks that Nick could easily make it around a novice-novice course (if Robin lets you) and won't have much trouble with P/N before long. And yes, that's my stick poking at you! :D

 

I totally can picture this look in my head. :rolleyes:

 

Yes, the Pipster needs some work on lifting sheep off a human and his/her dog. Guess who's going to be roped in for that duty? I even have a dog or two you can hold with.

 

J.

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Well, you see, my thought was that this little tale might be an inspiration to you. I'd be willing to bet big bucks that Nick could easily make it around a novice-novice course (if Robin lets you) and won't have much trouble with P/N before long. And yes, that's my stick poking at you! :D

 

No pressure, right?? :rolleyes: Ok, ok, you guys win. I've got my entry form for Verna's in November printed out - and I'll mail it when it opens. Since you're the one poking the stick it's only fair that if I go you go too. I might be able to calm my nerves if I have a friend there. :D No fair throwing down gauntlets and stuff on a Monday though.

 

 

Yes, the Pipster needs some work on lifting sheep off a human and his/her dog. Guess who's going to be roped in for that duty? I even have a dog or two you can hold with.

 

Deal. We've got all kinds of draws and situations we can set up. :D Nick could use more lifting off of people and dogs work too.

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Thanks for posting. I wouldn't call that humiliating though.

Patty,

Lark wasn't humiliating by any means, but I'm sure the judge was wondering what the heck Pip and I thought we were doing out there! But that's okay, he and Phoebe are both young yet, and if I hadn't thought the sheep would be pretty workable for them, I wouldn't have even tried. And now Laura is going to force me to go to Verna's trial, so we've got our work cut out for us before then.

 

J.

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Julie,

 

Phoebe and Pip are litter mates, right? Lark is from a different litter, but not much older right? Did you find it difficult to manage so many young dogs at one time?

 

I recognize that this is a saying likely from the performance world vs. the herding world, but people are usually discouraged from keeping two litter mates. I had a difficult time with my recent litter. I would have liked to have kept two females, but decided to keep just the one because I didn't think I could do two justice.

 

Thanks and congratulations on your good results. You are a very good trainer and it doesn't surprise me.

 

Michelle

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Well, to me, it sounds like the young 'uns did a pretty respectable job for their first time out. Gotta stick your toes in sometime!

 

Can't wait to hear how they all do next. Laura, I'm sure having Julie there will help calm your nerves. If not, don't forget the courage in a bottle. :rolleyes:

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Julie,

 

Phoebe and Pip are litter mates, right? Lark is from a different litter, but not much older right? Did you find it difficult to manage so many young dogs at one time?

 

I recognize that this is a saying likely from the performance world vs. the herding world, but people are usually discouraged from keeping two litter mates. I had a difficult time with my recent litter. I would have liked to have kept two females, but decided to keep just the one because I didn't think I could do two justice.

 

Thanks and congratulations on your good results. You are a very good trainer and it doesn't surprise me.

 

Michelle

Michelle,

I don't think there's an easy answer. Normally I would never have consciously said, "I want to raise/train multiple youngsters," but it just sort of happened that way. Lark is about 6 months older than Pip and Phoebe, so she did have one-on-one time with me before others were added to the mix. Managing hasn't really been a big issue, and I haven't even kept them separate, letting them be playmates as they saw fit (and having to fit in with the rest of the pack). I haven't noticed that any of them is more bonded to another. They all crave attention and work from *me.* Lark and Pip are great playmates, and Phoebe will join in, but not so much. They pretty much get equal stock time though, and that's what interests them most.

 

My original plan was to keep just one from the litter, the reasoning being that Lark would be a bit further along by the time a pup was in the house and old enough to start training (as six months can be a big difference when it comes to training/working--for example, this is Lark's only nursery year, but P&P can run through 2009, so if I wanted to do nursery, I could concentrate on Lark this year and them next year). Pip really made it clear he wanted to be my dog, and I wasn't going to give up my pick of the litter to keep him (since I'm not that fond of males anyway), so the only answer was to keep two. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but if you're willing to make the commitment to give each youngster quality individual attention, you can make it work I think.

 

Also I think it comes down to each individual's comfort level. Coming from the horse world, I found the greatest pleasure in working with the youngsters or green horses and I think that has carried over to the dogs. I just get a kick out of it. But if you aren't a person who enjoys or is really comfortable with working with "greenies" then fewer is probably better. I count on my trained dogs to do the necessary chores, but am not the sort of trainer who gets any pleasure out of "drilling" once the dogs are fully trained. I figure the day-to-day work, such as it is, offers the elements of what's needed for trialing, and as long as I don't get slopppy with them, I don't need to train on them a lot. The reason I got Lark was because I had just the two open dogs at the time and so a youngster was just what I needed so as not to have to drill the trained dogs.

 

That said, I don't know that I'd repeat three at once. It's just one of those circumstances that sort of happened. And now that I have them and they are all coming along well, I really won't have a need for another youngster any time soon. (Famous last words.) FWIW.

 

J.

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Can't wait to hear how they all do next. Laura, I'm sure having Julie there will help calm your nerves. If not, don't forget the courage in a bottle. :D

 

:rolleyes: No doubt about it. Julie's kind of used to my nervy obsessiveness - and she has a calming effect on me. But barring that, if she brings the tequila you all might just need a shovel and wheelbarrow to get me to the post (I've already proven I canna hold me licquor a'tall).

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Michelle,

I don't think there's an easy answer. Normally I would never have consciously said, "I want to raise/train multiple youngsters," but it just sort of happened that way. Lark is about 6 months older than Pip and Phoebe, so she did have one-

 

Like I said, I was just curious. I don't know how people who breed on a regular basis do it. That litter about killed me! The last one goes to his home Friday and then I'll be down to the one I'm keeping, Inferno and I can't wait to start one-on-one work with her. I tend to get overwhelmed quite easily so that may be the reason. Three dogs, that's my limit and that's what I have now.

 

Hey, have you noticed puppies reverting back to the previous generation in looks or temperament? Inferno looks nothing like her siblings in coat or structure, nor does she act like them or her parents. I'm thinking (hoping?) that she's going to take after Gel's mother.

 

Thanks!

 

M.

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Julie and Laura, o.k. exactly where is Verna's? I wanna come watch.

It's in Palmyra, VA, which is south of Xion Crossroads (where 64 crosses 15 in VA). Mapquest (or whatever program you choose) from your place to Haden Martin Road in Palmyra. Hickory Hill is approximately 2 miles down Haden Martin on the left after you turn off of 15. I'm guessing it's about a 3 to 3-1/2 hour drive for me from Liberty. The trial is Nov. 17-18.

 

J.

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Julie - Congrats on Lark and on the pups' debut! I wish I could have been there to cheer you guys on.

 

Laura - You will be there soon, I'm sure. You've got a nice pup and you are working hard at it.

 

Best wishes to all!

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