G. Festerling Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 I was wondering about something that was brought to my attention the other day. A club that I am a member off, as well as my agility class, require proof of vaccination before joining. Rabies is of course easy enough as we are bound to it by law anyway. The other vaccines are what my question is about. Obviously there are people out there in the dog community that follow a minimum to no vaccination program. Everyone it entitled to their believes and that is fine but how can someone that does not believe in regular vaccines (and by that I mean strictly the basic vaccine plus the kennel cough one) once a year still join a club? Do your clubs accept titers? Do you not allow them to join? Does your club check yearly if the dogs are UTD on the shots? I am not wild about the kennel cough vaccine either but do it because of the rescues and the fact that the class does require it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 No rabies over here, thank goodness. Most of our training is outdoors, so some clubs do not have strict requirements. Others require to see the vacc certificate for joining and renewal - the basic C3 is enough. A couple of clubs that I'm familiar with accept vet certificate if the dog is not vacc for some reason. Titers are not common here, but if/as they become more common, I'd think clubs would accept vet cert as an alternative to actual vacc cert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 What does your vet reccomend in the way of vaccinations? My vet is fine with vaccinating every 3 years and then I just get a paper from my vet saying the dog is current on vaccinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheRuffMuttGang Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 In the day and age of being able to vaccinate your dogs on your own, who is to say your dogs are or are not vaccinated? If you buy vaccines, there is no proof that you either did or did not actually give the dogs the vaccines--anyone can take the sticker off of the side of the bottle and put it in a dog's health record. So where is the line drawn? Do the shots have to be administered by a veterinarian? To purchase one yearly DHLPP vaccine from my vet for all 8 of my dogs it would cost me $176 ($22 each). To buy said vaccines on my own and administer them myself, it would cost me a whopping $20 or so (depending on how much vaccs are at the time of bulk purchase). I do not vaccinate my dogs on a yearly basis and if a club were so terrified that my obviously healthy, well-cared for dogs were not allowed to join the club because of that choice, then so be it. There's no way I would spend $150 extra per year just to be able to join a club that doesn't trust my judgement about what is and isn't good for my own dogs. So far, I have not encountered this problem myself. The people that are so terrified of dogs being vaccinated are the ones that DO vaccinate every year, so where is the issue? The only dogs at risk are the unvaccinated dogs. To each his own. I know what club you're talking about and they do demos everywhere, including Reliant, where the risk of disease is probably the highest of any other location. It's each person's job to do what is best for their own dogs and each person has to weigh the risks vs. benefits of vaccinating. The choice is an individual one and shouldn't be governed by a club, IMO. I think a better option would be to ask every member to get a letter from their vet, yearly, that states that their dogs are healthy, free of disease and are cleared to be around other dogs. Your club will be missing out on wonderful people and wonderful dogs should you turn down the people this post is in reference to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 A sensible, forward thinking club would simply have each person sign a waver that they have discussed their dog's health with their vet, and per their vet's advice the dog has been protected from disease as needed by the methods recomended by that vet. They could also ask for proof Rabies - as required by state law. Truly "requiring" any sort of vaccine of canine club member is practicing veterinary medicine without a license. The decision process (other than the state required rabies) should only be between vet and owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devi Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 I have looked into the subject with the same club and their issue with not vaccinating doesn't seem to be the club's dogs' health-- they seem more worried about your dog biting someone and finding out your dog isn't vaccinated. They will not accept titers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheRuffMuttGang Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 In the case of a bite, the only vaccine that is needed is rabies. In TX, that is a three year vaccine that is mandated by law so there really is no way you can get around it. All of the other canine diseases are not transmittable to humans and therefore should not be required if this is what the club is truly worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devi Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 In the case of a bite, the only vaccine that is needed is rabies. In TX, that is a three year vaccine that is mandated by law so there really is no way you can get around it. All of the other canine diseases are not transmittable to humans and therefore should not be required if this is what the club is truly worried about. I don't know why I didn't think about that. Of course it wouldn't matter if your dog was vaccinated against Bordetella, KC or Parvo if your dog bit someone. Seeing as that was the reasoning we were given, that makes it seem pretty ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat's Dogs Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 The training facility I went to required UTD on shots, like most do. But they don't check after your first class. All the agility trial entry forms do require that your dog is UTD though - I don't remember if they want more than rabies though..... Interesting thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted August 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 Kat, that was one of the issues brought up due to a recent inquiry. The club also did not check after the initial joining. But now we are considering a yearly update. Debbies point on getting a yearly letter from the vet sounds fair. This is NOT about the validity of shots. I am trying to find a way that respects everyones opinions, keeps all the dogs as safe as possible and makes the club as accessible as we can to everyone that loves to play and interact with thier dogs. Debbie, Yes that is the club I am talking about, and because they DO NOT want to miss out on certain people I am asking of a huge community how they handle it. The club also has a wonderful healthrecord. And would like to keep it that way for all members. My vets, who are very easy to get along with do recommend the basic vaccines yearly. Lepto, KC and a few others depending on the dogs living situation. So they do not push not needed vaccines. If a dog can not get vaccines for some reason then I also feel that a healthcert from a vet should do. But would that require more of an update than once a year? Most healthcerts are only valid for a certain number of days. Devi, when I was approached about it the concern was more for the dogs than the people. The one thing we don't worry about is rabies as it is law. So the danger to people is not the main concern. Although Lepto is also transmittable to people, dogs sick with it would not be in a postition to bit anyone at a public event. So that is not a huge concern either. As far as the titers are concerned. I will do more research and can present the idea to the club. I see no reason why they would not if they get a chance to look it over and think about it. So there is one thing I can see what we can do about. But as the community changes things need to be readjusted and thought about. This is why I would like to get everones input. How many clubs or classes do accept titers? If they do not why would they not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheRuffMuttGang Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 A Lepto vaccine is not a needed vaccine in TX. Do some research on the stats of Lepto in TX before you take your vet's word for this. MOST sport clubs do have excellent health records, with or without proof of vaccines. Why? Because the people that care to spend time with their dogs doing sports generally take excellent care of their dogs. The dogs are fed good food and get the vet care, whether that be alternative medicine or classical veterinary care. I do not have to show any proof of any vet care whatsoever to my flyball club, yet we have an excellent health record. For agility, the only proof I have to provide is that my dogs' rabies vaccines are up to date every 3 years. I've only recently begun to attend frisbee gatherings but so far I have not been asked to show any proof of vet records, although that could change I suppose. I will let you know. If they ask for anything more than rabies and refuse my knowledge, research and a letter from my vet stating that my dogs are healthy and free of disease, well, I guess we'll go back to doing frisbee on our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted August 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 Debbie, I have now got a pretty good idea of your procedures. Even agree on some. But I am also looking for input of others. As far as the lepto, I know it is not required. Can you give others just a bit of credit at times? I had a dog with lepto many years ago. Something I will avoid at any cost. And I had a fiend of the family (human) that got it. Not good! So as it stands right now I will talk to them and see what the concern is about the titers. That will give me some place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheRuffMuttGang Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 I research everything before I go and do it. Lepto came up recently somewhere else and I did a search on it and there are something like 12 cases in dogs reported in TX every year. The latest population count I could find for dogs in TX (2002) was over 6 million. That means any single dog has, at most, a 0.0002% chance of acquiring Lepto in TX. Knowing that the adverse reactions to the Lepto vaccine can be pretty severe, the risk vs. reward analysis for the Lepto vaccine is not in favor of the vaccine for my own dogs. Did you live in TX when your dog got Lepto? Just curious. Of course Lepto is not impossible to catch in TX, and you're right, it is transmittable to humans. It's just such a small possibility here that it's almost negligible. Every person has to analyze the risks vs. rewards for any vaccine or treatment for their family and pets. If I lived in North Carolina, I would probably vaccinate for Lepto. Just like if I lived in Wisconsin I would vaccinate for Lyme disease. Some vets will suggest every vaccine under the sun even if the diseases are not even a threat in the area. One vet even convinced me a couple of years ago to vaccinate my dogs for giardia, which is very rarely life threatening and is easily treated. I have never given the vaccine since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devi Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 As far as the titers are concerned. I will do more research and can present the idea to the club. I see no reason why they would not if they get a chance to look it over and think about it. So there is one thing I can see what we can do about. Thanks for looking into it. I was given an "absolutely not" when I offered to titer my dogs as proof of immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted August 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Devi, you are more than welcome. I can't promise anything but would love to see you be able to join and have fun. This is a really good group, they put up with me after all! When I know a bit more I will let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheRuffMuttGang Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Were you involved with the Demo at Reliant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Here is a link for you UC Davis vaccine protocol. From most of what I've read, it really looks like giving core vaccines every 3 years does protect your dog from those diseases. My point of veiw is, that if studies are showing that 3 year vaccines are effective, why give them more often and increase the risk of the possible side effect? Maybe you could print out some info on 3 year vaccines and present it to your club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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