TaliC2007 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Hi, I am new to this board and I am really glad I found it! You all have wonderful and beautiful dogs. I have looked at all the pictures on the picture thread at least twice. I was hoping that you could give me some advice. First of all, I have never had a Border Collie before. I have spent the last year researching the breed, reading everything I could find about their behaviour, what to look for in a breeder, what to look for in a dog, depending on what you intend to do with it, etc... I currently have two Australian Shepherds and really love them, so I have debated on rather or not to get another Aussie, or get a Border Collie. I have decided that I want a Border Collie. I want to start training in agility and I think it might be too hard on my old girls joints. My Aussie's are 9 and 11. So here is what I need advice on. The puppy I have picked will be 7 months old when I get him. He comes from a breeder who I think is terrific. She fosters Border Collie rescues, which says to me she is not into it for the money. She teaches obedience and agility classes, and she lives on a farm. The puppies parents are both working sheep dogs, his mother lives on their farm, his father on another farm. They are also very accomplished in obedience and agility, and the mother is a therapy dog as well. She has taken the puppy with her on several overnight trips where there have been lot's of people, she takes him to her obedience classes, and he stays in her house, as opposed to a kennel. She has taken very good care of his health, and both of his parents have been hip and eye tested. There are several reasons she still has him. 1. He is rather on the small side. He is 26 pounds at 5 months, not sure if that is small? She says he will be on the smaller side though. He is mostly black. I happen to love the way he is marked, but it seems most people want traditional markings. She would not sell him to a home that isn't going to do something with him such as agility, herding, flyball, something very active, because he is a bold, high energy, into everything, puppy. She says that most of the people who have come to look at him are more concerned about the price than the puppy. She is only asking 500.00 which I think is very low considering all of the expenses of having a litter of puppies and taking care of them right, not to mention all of the time and effort she has put into socializing him. So now that you know a little about him, can you give me some advice on what kinds of challenges I will have with getting him at 7 months old. Are there different things I will need to do as opposed to bringing home an eight week old puppy. He is crate trained as well and I read that when you bring a rescue home you should give them a few days of peace and quite away from other dogs, excitment, etc.. to help them adjust. Is this true for an older pup as well? My dogs have lots of toys, frisbee's, balls, tug ropes, and other misc. items. Do I need to get my puppy his own toys? I guess what I really want to know is how to make his transition from one home to a new home an easy and positive experience. Also, is it too late to change his name? I can live with the name they have given him. In fact, it is kind of growing on me, but I was just wondering, since he has already started obedience with the name he has if I should keep it. I am guessing yes. btw, I can't get him for 2 more months because I will be going out of the country for 3weeks at the beginning of August and don't want to bring him home and then have to leave him, and I have read that it is damaging to keep a Border in a kennel for very long. Thanks for all your help. I am sure I will be posting often with endless questions. I will try to keep future posts shorter. Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 First of all, welcome! Congrats on your decision to get a border collie and for having done your research to make sure this is the breed for you. He is rather on the small side. He is 26 pounds at 5 months, not sure if that is small? No, to me that's not small. He'll probably top out around 40 lbs, which is average. (there is a wide variety in shapes and sizes, as I'm sure you've discovered). My pup is about 10 months old and only weighs 27 lbs. So now that you know a little about him, can you give me some advice on what kinds of challenges I will have with getting him at 7 months old. Are there different things I will need to do as opposed to bringing home an eight week old puppy. He is crate trained as well and I read that when you bring a rescue home you should give them a few days of peace and quite away from other dogs, excitment, etc.. to help them adjust. Is this true for an older pup as well? My dogs have lots of toys, frisbee's, balls, tug ropes, and other misc. items. Do I need to get my puppy his own toys? I guess what I really want to know is how to make his transition from one home to a new home an easy and positive experience. Also, is it too late to change his name? I can live with the name they have given him. In fact, it is kind of growing on me, but I was just wondering, since he has already started obedience with the name he has if I should keep it. I am guessing yes. Actually, you'll probably have a pretty smooth transition with this guy. BC puppies can be handfuls, but you're getting him at a great age. Awesome that he's crate trained, keep that up once he comes home with you. Are your dogs good with other dogs? I'm sure the puppy is, coming from a breeder, he's probably around a lot of other dogs. It's best to make initial introductions at a neutral site, if you can. Take it slow and don't force anything. Be sure to give the puppy alone time and make sure your current dogs still get their own time with you, too. Monitor all play times and don't leave them unattended. If the puppy gets annoying to the older dogs, give him a time out in the crate, your older guys will appreciate the break. (Just my opinion, but I don't think this pup would need the peace and quiet, super slow intro into the household that a rescue might. He's coming from a stable, good situation and should be able to adapt. Obviously, if you see he needs it, then you can go ahead and take things really slow.) What else? Toys. Sure you could get him his own toys, but most dogs will end up sharing, anyway. Again, closely monitor him and the current dogs, to make sure everyone is ok with sharing. No, it's not too late to change his name. Adult rescues often get new names and they all learn it quickly. If you need help with that, there is a thread in the FAQ section on teaching a dog his name. You could to refer to that for ideas on teaching the puppy his new name. If you're not crazy about it, change it. It's something you'll be yelling for the next 15 or so years. Good luck and have fun with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha J Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Hello and welcome Tammy Good answer from Paula, i shall just add post some pic's when you get him, we love pic's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 I forgot to mention this, although you probably already thought of it: feed them separately. Everyone deserves their own space and bowl and doesn't need a pushy puppy (not that he *will be*, but could be) trying to nose into their dinner. I feed mine at the same time, and all in the kitchen, but their bowls are in different corners and I stand there to make sure all is fine. At least do this in the beginning, to make sure all goes smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Welcome, Tammy, from a fellow (but former) Aussie Owner! It sounds like you are putting a lot of thought and preparation into getting this youngster and that is a very good thing. You are probably familiar with the fact that many young dogs will pass through another fear stage at about eight months of age. As this may coincide with bringing this youngster home, you need to be aware of this as it may be manifest about the time you get your youngster. Since it appears that this young dog will be well raised and socialized, you hopefully will not have much to worry about except integrating him into your household. As your more mature dogs are bitches and he's a male (is he neutered yet?), that shouldn't be a big problem as long as he minds his manners - and I'm sure they will be glad to let him know when and if he's being rude! A lot of folks who put appearance ahead of talents (working ability, personality, etc.) may shy away from the "more black" and less "traditional black with Irish markings". My first real working-bred pup was a "boring" black and was sharp as a tack, and a wonderful dog. But he wouldn't have been picked out of the litter by most people, at least not those looking for a "pretty" dog rather than a "useful" dog. Considering what she's put into him compared to the cost (and subsequent costs) of a puppy, I think $500 sounds very reasonable. Most folks who can't sell pups wind up dropping the price but some are smart enough to not lower the price so far that the "wrong" type of owner will make an offer. Some questions - is he registered? What registry? ABCA (American Border Collie Assn.), ISDS (International Sheep Dog Society - the "mother" society of working-bred Border Collies, in the UK), and CBCA (Canadian Border Collie Assn. - I think I got that right) are fine. AKC and UKC which are based on conformation breeding, and CKC (Continental Kennel Club) and the myriad of other "puppy mill registries" are not. Since AKC allows dual-registry (registering dogs from ABCA, etc.) I would avoid anyone who offers "dual-registered" dogs. They are just sitting on the fenceline when it comes to the working-bred vs conformation-bred registry issue (you can read more about that at www.bordercollie.org). There is even something called (if I recall rightly) the International Border Collie Registry which is nothing but another back-yard breeder registry. Not being registered isn't a big issue if the pup comes from good stock, wisely bred, as can often happen on farm/ranch situations but most reputable breeders in the US will register with ABCA (and the same for Canada, with CBCA). Has he had all his puppyhood vaccinations? Fecal-tested and treated for any parasites (worms, giardia, mites, fleas, ticks, etc.)? I would expect this from what you said about the breeder so far. As an Aussie owner, I am sure you are aware that he will be well into the adolescent stage when you get him and, coming into a new home, there may be quite a bit of adjustment. I think, if he's like my Border Collies and your bitches are like my Aussies have been, you might find him a bit less pushy in nature but with the same lively attitude and eagerness that your Aussies probably have. Working-bred Border Collies are energetic and intelligent but they also tend to have good "off-switches", which will become more apparent with adulthood (in general). One reference you might enjoy is Barbara Syke's book, Understanding Border Collies. I can't say I agree with everything she says but she has years of good, intelligent experience to back up her opinions and is a respected expert on Border Collies in the UK. I think it would be an excellent part of your preparation. Don't be embarassed by your long and detailed post. It was a good one. Very best wishes to you, the girls, and the (potential) new family member! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack & Co. Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Sue, your post was good too. I learned a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruger's Dad Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 My first thought was to purchase a crate if you don't already have one. Ruger was at least a year and a half old before he was allowed to be left alone in our house uncrated. We have another dog as well. I learned the hard way to not even take a nap and not have Ruger crated when he chewed up the window sill right next to me. Teething and separation anxiety can be hard on the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaliC2007 Posted June 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Thank you all for responding. I actually feel quite relieved and a lot less anxious about bringing him home now. I appreciate it greatly. One of the things I LOVE about this board, is that everyone is so encouraging to everybody else. You rarely see that on message boards and I am so glad I found it. My dogs are good with other dogs. I take them with me a lot to friends and family who have dogs and they always have a good time playing. I also dog-sit once in a while for friends and they are always good with those dogs too. I never thought of making the initial introductions at a neutral site, but that is great advice and I will definetly do that. Thanks! And thanks for the info on teaching a dog his name. I am not sure what I will do about that yet. I will also feed them separately. I do that with my two now but they usually end up sharing anyway. I will have to watch and make sure they leave the new pups food alone. I did read the article on the web about the different stages of a puppy and knew about the flight stage that they say begins around 7 months. I have a huge fenced in yard and I never leave my dogs outside if I am not home to keep an eye on them. I also never walk out the front door with my girls unless they have their leashes on. I will be going outside with the puppy on a long leash in the backyard for a while as I have heard and read that they are pretty good fence climbers when they want to see what is on the other side of the fence. Also, it is only myself and my 21 year old son who live at my house, and he takes good care of my Aussie's too so there are no worries there. The puppy will also be in a crate when we leave so there should be very little chance of him bolting out the door as we are walking out. He is not neutered yet but that will be one of the first things I do after bringing him home. Can you nueter a dog at 7 months? If not, when is the best time to do that? My girls are spayed and I am very sure they will let him know if he is being rude. He is registered with the ABCA only. I have read about all the controversy over the AKC registration and I agree that they shouldn't be breed for confirmation. My main reason for thinking this is that it will only entice more people to buy them because they are beautiful (the one's I have seen in the dog shows like Crufts, Eukanuba, etc... are stunning) but without understanding them. As I said, I have never owned a Border Collie before, but I have read enough to understand that if you don't plan on being committed with your time and attention you shouldn't own one. I also get the part about breeding the herding instinct out of them because you breed for beauty instead of ability. That would be a crime. That is the very thing that makes these dogs so amazing to me no matter what they look like. We go to the local Scottish highland games every year just to watch the border collies herd sheep. They never cease to fascinate me. They are so incredible. We also have a big group of them that march in the St. Patricks day parade in Kansas City and you can really see the fun, playful side of them. I also read that the International Border Collie Registry was actually started by some disgruntled breeder that was banned from the ABCA, and everything I read warned me to stay away from breeders who registered their dogs with them. The puppy has had all of his puppy vaccinations including bordetella. He has been dewormed several times and is on heartworm preventative. He has had a CERF eye exam and has been vet checked. She said she will get his rabies vaccination and have him microchip before he goes to his new home. Both of his parents are also OFA and CERF certified. I will try to find Barbara Syke's this week and start reading. Thanks for telling me about it. I do have one picture of him that I have set as my desktop on my computer. I hope it is ok to post it since I don't actually own him yet. I am just crazy about him already. Waiting for him is like being a kid waiting for Christmas to get here! Here is his picture, and I also posted a picture of my girls, Lily and Precious. Precious is my 9 year old merle, who was more like Chaos for the first two years of her life but is my perfect little girl now, and Lily is the Red Tri who is one of the three loves of my life. BTW, the pool water is only half full and dirty because they love to run and jump in, roll around a bit, jump out, roll around in the dirt, then jump back in, over and over.... Thanks again for all your help, Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Tammy, I can tell from your reply that you all are going to be just fine! Your new pup is gorgeous, and so are the girls! As far as neutering goes, there are a couple of schools of thoughts. Some people think it's better to wait until the dog's growth plates have closed, somewhere around a year to a year and a half. Others think neutering young doesn't have any negative long term effects, so they may have it done earlier. My dogs are rescues, so they came altered already, I didn't get a choice. So, basically, it's up to you. Do some reading and decide whichever way you think is best. The only thing I can say for sure, is *do* neuter him, but it sounds like that's a definite, already. Let us know if you have any other questions, and please do come back and post pictures when you get him home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 You do sound like you are doing your "homework" and putting all the necessary time and effort into preparing yourself. This sounds like one lucky little guy heading your way! As for neutering, I believe a lot depends on your goals and who you talk to, like Paula says. To be totally honest, if what I wanted was a companion dog, I would consider any time after six months, but perhaps take my cue from the dog himself. As long as he acts "immature" and without beginning to show behaviors that I don't want in an adult dog, I would wait as long as 14-15 months, in order to allow mature development of his body and closing of the growth plates in the long bones. He will also tend to be less rangy and leggy if this is done, as well as looking more masculine - my leggy charmer was neutered at six months, and folks are always calling him "her" and some male dogs find him fascinating although he doesn't appreciate their interest and advances! But usually a male won't go that long without beginning leg-lifting and marking and more male behaviors so, for a companion, I would neuter while he still has the "personality" I want and before he gets into behaviors I don't want. If your goal is a performance dog, and by that I mean things like competitive agility, flyball, dock-diving, frisbee, etc., I would wait until the growth plates are closed. Some studies appear to indicate that there can be some benefit to this in terms of soundness. A search (function at the top of the page) may help you locate previous threads discussing this. If your goal is a dog to work stock, I would also wait until about 15 months or later. Not only would I do this for growth reasons, but also because I do think early neutering might be detrimental to the male dog that is going to be used for serious stock work. My Celt, whom I believe has some genetic predisposition to a certain lack of confidence, was neutered at six months and I am convinced it didn't help him in terms of developing a sense of confidence and presence that translates into power (not gripping, which is biting) on stock. Just as gelding a horse tends to reduce that masculine spark a stallion has, so too can neutering a male dog have a similar effect, I believe. I think that's great in a pet but not an asset in a working dog. As for the "beauty" in the conformation dogs, we believe "beauty is as beauty does" and that the real beauty lies within the dog and with what it does and means to you, not how it looks. That said, many of us have personal preferences - I like a black and white dog with prick ears and a medium coat, a bit on the rangy side. But what's more important is that I have the dog that does the job I need and is the companion that suits me, no matter what he/she looks like. Very best wishes to you, your old ladies, and your soon-to-be youngster in the family! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoBC Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Welcome to the boards. The little guy looks so cute. Sounds like you have gotten lots of good advice already. So I'll just welcome you to the board. Lots of pictures are fine with us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.