Newbie Sheep Questions...

[Johnson]

I'm looking to get a sheep to 'mow'. Being new to sheep, I'm not familiar with some of the terms, so please bear with me.

 

I live in the high desert and get temperatures ranging for 10-105°. I assume what I can find locally will be hardy for this area.

 

Do sheep have to be sheared for my hot weather? I rather not do any shearing, any breed suggestions?

 

I get allot of rain and I have to mow a fire break probably 5-6 times a season. The vegetation is mostly 2-3 foot clumpy grass that a chicken disappears into only going in a few feet. With this growth rate, how many acres would I need to support one sheep year around?

 

I'm under the impression that sheep can live on vegetation from land alone, is this true?

 

If a sheep has more than adequate grazing land, will they strip vegetation to bare ground? I heard somewhere that sheep consume vegetation very close to the ground or bare.

 

I have chickens so I have bent up the bottom of some of my fences so my chickens can walk under them, are sheep crafty enough to go under a 12" gap?

 

I have 5 foot Arizona Cypress and Afghan Pines in the fenced in area, will a sheep eat these?

 

Are males generally more aggressive than females?

 

Do lambs need vaccinations?

[Bill Fosher]

First of all, sheep are gregarious animals and keeping one sheep by itself borders on cruelty. I think the bare minimum for proper social interaction of sheep is five, and 20 is better.

 

I can't answer your questions about how your vegetation would hold up to grazing because I'm not familiar with the kinds of grasses that grow in your climate. However, regardless of climate and vegetation type, sheep will only graze the ground bare if they are forced to. Whether they can survive on grazing alone depends entirely on the material they have to graze. If your grasses stop growing either due to drought in the summer or cold in the winter, your sheep may not have enough material to meet their needs, in which case you'd need to supplement them with hay, grain, or both.

 

Sorry I can't be more help, but the main thing is to stop thinking in terms of one sheep.

[Johnson]

I didn't know sheep were gregarious, I guess I'll get more.

 

OK, looks like my vegetation question was not well thought out. Maybe some pictures can help to identify what I have. (coffee cup for size reference). The 'grass' hasn't started to grow yet, but a good reference what they will be eating in winter. The green stuff is only a couple a weeks old and already over a foot tall.

 

 

 

[hsnrs]

Where are you located? We are in southeast AZ and your grasses look like ours (but we don't get much rain). Sheep can survive but probably need some supplementation. We have St. Croix/ Barb/Painted Desert crosses. They are fairly hardy and don't need shearing. They are referred to as "hair sheep" but do grow a little fuzzy wool in winter to keep them warm (we are at 4,400 ft and do get some snow). They are really hardy. How many acres do you have to mow? We started with 3 bred ewes so not sure if that is the requisite number; it worked for us. N

[Johnson]

I'm in the S/E NM. We seem to get lots of rain during the summer, more than winter. So it makes everything grow like crazy. We get small amounts of snow.

 

Would the supplement only need to be hay?

 

I have been reading some posts on fencing, but it's unclear if sheep will go under the fence. From what I have read so far, I'll be getting one breed of the following, Navajo Churros, Border Cheviots, katahdins, dorpers, St. Croix, Barb, Painted Desert.

 

Will one of these breeds go under fences? (I bent up a foot of fence so my chickens can get into the field).

[juliepoudrier]

Johnson,

If the sheep aren't getting enough to eat--i.e., they're hungry--they may well go under a fence. The first two breeds you list are wool breeds and will require shearing. Navajo churro are adapted to the climate out there, and if I were to choose a wool breed, that would be my choice over the cheviots (cheviots are hardy and good foragers, but I wonder if the climate wouldn't be a bit much for them). Something like the Navajo churro should be adapted both to the climate and to the types of forage available. But there is that shearing thing.

 

As for supplement types, it depends on what you're doing. If sheep have good forage that meets most of their nutritional needs, then adding hay would certainly help. BUT (and you knew there was going to be one of those), quality of hay makes a HUGE difference. If the hay has no nutritional value, then the sheep might fill their bellies but still starve for lack of proper nutrients. No matter what you do, you should make available at all times salt and a good mineral mix. In that kind of heat, I'd also want to be sure that the sheep always have a source of fresh, cool, clean water.

 

As Bill noted, sheep can be selective grazers, which means they may not eat everything down equally. The only way to get them to graze *everything* down in general is to force them to do so by confining them in a smaller space to limit their foraging options. Forcing them into a smaller space means that they are more likely to re-infest themselves with worms that they have deposited on the pasture, so you will need to have a good parasite control program as well. For example, I kept 7 sheep in my backyard last year and ended up mowing it just once all year (of course the yard is basically all palatable grass, not scrub type stuff), but because the sheep were in such a small space, I had to be on top of worm control or risk losing sheep.

 

If you can find somebody in your vicinity who has sheep, you might benefit from establishing a relationship with that person or people and use them as a mentor to ensure that you are setting things up properly to keep sheep in good health and still get the mowing done that you desire.

 

J.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm still not getting a sense of how big an area this is. If you get just a few sheep, and you have enough grass for them, and contain them with something like electronet until they have evenly grazed what you want, you should be able to keep the grass short. The rotation will help with parasite load. Parasite problems are worst when the sheep are allowed or forced to go back to the same grass over and over at the same stage of growth, as they'll do if not moved on.

[Bill Fosher]

Any sheep would at least try to go under a fence if there's enough reason to -- no feed on the inside, better feed on the outside, etc. Barbados (and perhaps St. Croix, although I don't know them as well) will also go over the fence. I have seen a Barbados Blackbelly sail over a 54 inch fence on a sidehill -- and it started out on the downhill side.

 

My biggest concern about the holes under the fences, however, would be the fact that they would be the ideal entry point for coyotes and stray dogs.

[Bill Fosher]

Looking at the pictures of your vegetation, I seriously doubt that sheep are going to keep it cleaned up well enough to provide fire protection unless you mob stock it and then have other places to maintain them. Dry brown grass is not very palatable, but is very flammable.

[Johnson]

I know nothing about sheep (yet) and I listed breeds that I saw in other posts that indicated they were in a hot region. I will want a hair breed so I don't have to shear, but is comfortable in 10-105° weather.

 

Ah, a "salt and a good mineral mix". Another piece of info I didn't know. I take it these come in 'lick blocks'? I plan on having an auto water trough under a shaded area.

 

I have approximately 4 acres fenced in. I'm not looking for a manicured look for the area, just a reduction in vegetation, it gets tall and thick in summer (the mowing reference was to indicate the summer growth rate of the vegetation). So the sheep will never be confined in smaller areas and will roam the four acres. I will still have to mow a fire break around the house, for it's not fenced. I currently mow about an acre in the fenced in area. (mowing/grazing also reduces a mosquito issue)

 

So my idea is to get a certain number of sheep that will reduce the vegetation, but not get hungry (or malnutrition) enough to go under the fence. Also not to supplement until the winter months. I haven't been able to figure out what number this should be. So I guess I will start with two and work my way up until I get a desired result. I really don't want to get 5-20 sheep to only find out I have to buy hay by the flatbed. (I'm not going to breed)

 

As far as proper nutrition, I take it this will be obvious from their poop?

 

I do I tell quality hay from inferior?

 

Generally, how long does it take for a lamb to be full grown?

 

As far as predators, I have only lost 1 chicken in a year. Plus, I have tons of wild cottontails which must keep the predators full. As far as I can tell, I have coyotes and a few raptures.

[juliepoudrier]

Johnson,

Bill's probably a much better resource than I am, but I'll give some of your questions a crack, and Bill can add/correct as necessary.

 

1. You can get minerals in loose form or in tubs (the tub form is usually a molasses-based mix that the sheep lick vs. the loose mineral, which they will eat directly), but whichever you use, you'll also need to provide plain salt (a white salt block). Be cognizant that sheep are sensitive to copper and so you can't just go get any mineral supplement and expect it to be safe for your sheep--you will need minerals or tubs that are formulated specifically for sheep.

 

2. In general, I don't think you can tell nutritional/health status of your sheep by looking at their droppings. Obviously, sheep with diarrhea have something going on, and sometimes "clumpier" stools can indicate a problem (at least that's what I've heard, though I don't count on that as a health indicator). To check for parasites, you'd really need to do a fecal flotation test (if you have a microscope, you can learn to do this yourself). With wool breeds, the best way to check condition is to put your hands on the sheep. With hair breeds, you can probably get away with a visual inspection, but I still think hands-on is the best way to know the condition of your animals. Remember that sheep are a prey species and so they will hide any infirmity until they are so sick that they are practically beyond help, so it's best to be observant and proactive rather than waiting for your sheep to show signs of illness.

 

3. To find out the number of sheep that can be sustained on an acre of pasture in your location, you should contact your local agricultural extension service office. They should be able to tell you at least approximately how many sheep can be sustained on an acre (or if all they have is data on cattle, you can approximate five sheep to one cow or cow-calf pair, can't remember exactly), and then you just multiply by four. Someone from another part of the country cannot tell you how many sheep are suitable for your location. Even Bill and I probably have different stocking rates.

 

4. As Bill noted, sheep really aren't happy in small groups (that prey thing again). Stressed sheep are less likely to thrive, so try to get a few more than two. Right now I am feeding 21 sheep a small square bale of hay a day, but they are also supplemented with grain. You can feed less of a higher quality feed and more of a lower quality feed (with the limit being as I mentioned earlier that if the sheep are filling up on low-quality stuff they may not be able to meet their nutritional needs).

 

5. There is the option of selling sheep off in the fall and not overwintering at all, and then just buying sheep back in the following spring. This would allow you to have greater numbers since you won't have to feed them over the winter.

 

6. I have read different opinions on this, but I prefer for my sheep to have shade in the summer and at least a windbreak during cold weather. They don't necessarily need a snug barn, but I do think it helps to have shade (especially at the temps you're discussing) and some protection from wind when it's cold and rainy or snowy.

 

7. The way to determine hay quality is to have it forage tested. You could do a search on the Internet and see if there is anyone reasonably local to you who does the testing. Some hay suppliers will supply that information. My personal opinion is that if you're not breeding and you have a trusted supplier, you might get away without testing, but if you're really trying to keep costs down and provide the best nutrition possible for your $$, then testing the hay is the way to go. As I said earlier, you can also supplement with feed. Corn has traditionally been pretty cheap, though with the push for ethanol-based fuels, that's likely to change (and in fact already is changing). Of course my hay guy told me that ethanol fuels are also going to affect hay prices and not in a good way for those of us who are buying....

 

8. Coyotes are probably more of a problem with lambs than adult sheep, but if there's a way not to invite them in by leaving gaps under your fence, you should probably do so. My chickens (bantams) and my neighbor's chickens (big Delawares) all are quite capable of flying over fencing. Additionally, many are able to go through standard woven wire, and my bantams can squeeze through 2" x 4" openings in the welded wire (where it's been stretched a little) I have around my dog yard.

 

9. I consider a lamb a lamb until it's a year old. If you plan to bring in lambs I would try to make sure that the flock they come from was raised on a similar type of pasture that you have. Lambs learn what's edible and what's not from their mothers, and if you move sheep from an area with different forage, then the lambs may not know what to eat or may eat things they shouldn't.

 

10. As a new sheep owner, you will probably want to get at least one book on general sheep care. Such books won't answer all your questions (and may even scare you to death with doomsday scenarios), but they can also be an excellent resource for general management questions. Along with this, you will want to keep at least some basic care supplies on hand (for wounds, fly strike, foot care, etc.).

 

J.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

You definitely want to talk to an ag expert in your area. You need information on stocking rates for sure. I believe some of that grass you show is similiar to what we had in California - it gets sort of yellowish but still palatable and nutritious in the dry season.

 

Two sheep won't do the trick in heavy growing season, and will eventually eat everything, in the dormant seasons. So you can count on supplementing some, really no matter how few sheep you have, if you have a dormant season. I had a single bottle lamb on two acres one year, and she ate every bit of green she could reach when summer hit and stuff stopped growing.

 

I'd probably lean towards getting in half a dozen weaned lambs at the beginning of the growing season and then selling them off when the dry season hits. You won't gain anything in terms of money, but you shouldn't lose anything if you keep them alive (lol), and you'll have gained your end of using them for weed control.

 

Probably you'll want to divide that four acres into two areas. I've got a two and a half acre field out here that takes twenty sheep, about two weeks to graze down when it's growing fast. I've got it cut in half and I'm alternating sides, forcing the sheep to eat everything evenly down to about three inches (I supplement with just smidge of corn so they don't get antsy). By subdividing, you ensure that the field gets grazed down low and even enough that the sheep will get the most possible out of it - and you won't artificially select for tall, quick-growing, unpalatable plants. Now that it's winter, I've just got about ten of them stocked on the side with the poorest forage. They get hay and feed and pick at the broomsedge out of boredom, which is my evil plan.

[Bill Fosher]

Julie's hit all the high points. The only think that I would differ with her on is the mineral/salt issue. I prefer to use a loose mineral mixture that includes salt, macro-minerals (calcium and phosphorus) and trace minerals. The salt component is used to regulate intake of the minerals -- sheep will eat enough mix to satisfy their desire for salt. (Molasses serves the same function in the tubs.) If you put minerals and salt out separately, they will probably underconsume the minerals becuase they don't need to eat them to get the salt. And I would stay away from block salt, as the sheep tend to chew the blocks rather than lick them.

[Johnson]

What did say in my last post that warranted it's removal?

 

I would PM the mod, but I don't know who that is or do all inquires go to Eileen Stein?

[Black Watch Debatable]

You're fine! It wasn't anything you did --- see Eileen's thread in the General section:

 

 

The Missing Posts

 

I wondered if I had imagined your post in rely to Julie Glad it was just a computer thing...

[juliepoudrier]

Johnson,

I saw your post briefly but when I came back later to answer it had disappeared. The only question I remember is about the "hands on" thing. What I meant is as you guessed--it's easier to determine the condition of your sheep if you actually put your hands on them and feel them. There is a body condition scoring system here:

 

http://oregonstate.edu/dept/animal-sciences/bcs.htm

 

Here are a couple of resources you might find also helpful:

 

Ron Parker's The Sheep Book online: http://hem.bredband.net/ronpar/tsb.html

 

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/

 

On the above site, you can find all sorts of useful information. To start you might want to look at the following link to Sheep 101 and 201:

 

http://www.sheep101.info/

 

I found the above sites very useful when I had basic (and even not so basic) questions about raising sheep.

 

I hope some of these help.

 

J.

[Johnson]

Thank you for the links, they are very helpful.

 

Can I assume body scoring system is the same for a lamb?

 

I finally found someone that has some hair sheep. He has Barbados Blackbelly lambs.

 

I'm picking them up tomorrow, is there anything else I should know when inspecting a lamb besides the body scoring?

[trailrider]

Barbados think a five foot fence is for practice jumping. I had some at one time. Be careful with your fences. Good luck.

[Johnson]

Look what I got...