Bill Fosher Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 Over in the Behemoth AKC thread, Melanie postulated: Profit breeders cut corners. They don't evaluate their dogs. They often don't provide adequate food or health care. They breed way too often. They do what they can to increase the profit margin. They raise and sell in bulk to keep costs down. How is this compatible with the idea of breeding good working Border Collies? This is not necessarily true. If the only way to make a profit were to cut corners and operate in bulk, only Wal*Mart would be profitable. As it is, there are plenty of small operations that provide a very high quality product and have made the conscious decision to trade on their reputation, not on price point or volume. The same is true of people who breed dogs. I surely hope that people who breed quality pups will make a profit doing it because profit is how we signal an enterprise that it is doing the right thing. To say that people should not make a profit on puppies is like saying that I should not make a profit at sheep, or graphic design, or whatever other business one sets up in and decides to make ones reputation in. It is essentially saying that you don't want to pay for the expertise and care of the person who is breeding the pups. What is important is that those who want puppies have ready access to the information about how to tell a Wal*Mart puppy from a well-bred one. ------------------ Bill Fosher Surry, NH [This message has been edited by Bill Fosher (edited 10-23-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Well said, Bill. I sure hope that the folks who breed "good 'uns" make a profit from the dogs - although I guess that if one did a real profit and loss statement on the farming, trialing, and raising of working pups and dogs you'd find very little venture capitalists who would fund you... As Mr. Fosher points out, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to make a profit...even if that "profit", in many cases, "returns" only a miniscule percentage... If I stopped ever having pups, I would still support working dog breeders getting whatever they need to make a profit - after all, if akc conformation pups cost upwards of $1500, why should working dogs be "profitless"? When working dogs are taken over by rich hobbyists - much as the horse arenas have been - then the "real" working dog will have been lost to most folks - much as a "real" cutting horse has been lost to most folks...and participating in trials will be the baliwick of the monied few...been to an arabian show lately? Or draft horses, for god's sake - many of those folks have TRAILERS worth more than my entire farm...and those were certainly "working" horses at one time... While I understand Melanie's statements about "finding good homes" - I think much of the expereince of "bad homes" comes, not from TRULY well bred dogs, that buyers paid fairly good sums for - but from the masses of ill-bred dogs of mediocre breeding... And yes, I know somebody will say that they have seen some "big hats" dog in rescue, and there are always exceptions and accidents - but there are few, if any, pups out of International Supreme winners, USBCHA National Champs, Nursery champs, regional chamsps, etc., that end up in rescue. ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Hi all, I think this is more a problem of terminology. I don't want to see people breeding with the INTENT of profit, only. I think there are examples of well known dogs that are available to any bitch for a fee. I have had the unfortunate experience of meeting a puppymiller who also trialed Border Collies and Kelpies. There are bad examples of people, even in the working world, who are not breeding with quality in mind first- people who may produce excellent dogs in some cases, but who are also lax in the quantity and quality across the board. I hate to say I'm enough of a working dog junkie, if the person had the best breeding for what I want to do (working and health wise), I probably would shell out the money and take the little darling home. But usually, the reverse is true and I don't see many people breeding with the INTENT of profit that would have such a dog. However, the bad example, the puppymills and opportunists- do not mean that the profit itself is wrong. Breeding to produce a profit, regardless of results, is wrong. But if a breeding is so good, the parents of such quality, the cross proven, the health tests done, it would not be hard to make an immediate profit on a litter, and there is nothing wrong with that so long as the responsible things were done. And yes, they can be done and still make money on the litter, especially when we are talking a second or third litter or talking stud fees. Many health tests are only performed once, the CERF is yearly, but relatively inexpensive. Border Collies are generally easy breeders and whelpers (with exceptions of course). I lost money on the last litter I did, but only because I gave pups away to friends, if I had sold them, I would have made a significant immediate profit. I don't think there would have been an ethical problem with that. Of course, this doesn't include all the costs involved with raising, training and trialing the parents, so I doubt there are many people trialing and breeding that make a pure profit. Jaime Smokinjbc@msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.