dot me not Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 Well, here I am again with another sheep question. One of my ewes had twins on Valentines day. The little ram is quite a bit larger and more active than the baby ewe and he's pushing her out of the way frequently when nursing. She is nursing though and seems OK other than she's a little dehydrated (pull the skin up on her back and it stays there a few seconds. When I do that to the ram his skin pops right back in place.) Would it be better for me to go ahead and bottle raise this baby? I'm afraid that if I don't do that the ram will just keep outgrowing the ewe and eventually I'll lose her. Their mother doesn't seem to have a great deal of milk either. I don't want to jump in an interfere if I don't need to but I also don't want to lose the baby. Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 I'm with Inci - just bottle feed her on the side - supplementing rather than replacing...just to get her stronger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot me not Posted February 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 The only milk replacer my local feed store carries is Purina goat milk replacer. I think it's the unmedicated kind. Will that work? Or do you know of a homemade recipe? There's not very many sheep around here so they don't stock sheep specific items very much. Thanks for your help! I think this baby is healthy, but that dang big brother of hers is too much of a pig! Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Other places to order are: Pipestone Vet: www.pipevet.com Although these folks are occasionally a bit higher - they stock most of everything and are willing to discuss problems over the phone - a bit,a nd stopping short of diiagnosing or prescribing of course (legal disclaimer)...and quick service Also www.premier1supplies.com Again, not one of the bottom cheapest, but tons of info and quick service The cheaper ones are www.valleyvet.com and Nasco - don't have thier website... But these places are "livestock equipment suppliers" not sheep and goat suppliers and don't seem to get the orders out as quick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Lydia, Sure wish you would stop this-insert smirky smiley face-With my first lambing season nearing your scaring me..Insert warning for Bill and Inci, could be more dumb lamb questions in their future. Did have one lamb that because of ewe's former mastitis problems had to bottle feed from day one..Used Inci's cow milk and cream reciepe for 2 weeks until I could get lamb replacer. (Have it on hand this time around) lamb did find. I left her with the ewe and just hung a bottle did not want to make it a pet since I heard bottle babies don't make it for herding. She grew up big and strong..great herding sheep. Keep those lambing tips coming guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Amy and Lydia - both Pipestone and Premeier will do an overnight thing - kinda spendy, but if you miscalculate (or you're old brain THINKS it knows where the lamb nipples are) it can be a good thing... Lambing is always fun...honest...really... Don't forget to clip the tails. I've eventually gotten rid of all my bottle babies - not just the herding thing - I think mothering/milk production/ability ot make it without my help is a great culling excuse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot me not Posted February 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 OK, I called around this morning and of the 3 feedstores we have locally, NONE have lamb milk replacer. Two of them have Purina Kid Milk Replacer. It's lower in protein and fat than the lambs need from what I read. So instead of getting a big tub of that and it not be the right thing I might as well start off with the whole milk and cream recipe and order my own Lamb milk replacer like you did, Amy. Is there a specific amount of each I need to add together? Or do I just add a good splash of cream to the whole milk when fed? And if pet sheep are bad for the dogs to work then my first lamb is up a creek for sure! Even though she's with her mama and doing great there, she follows me everywhere! She chews my shoes and tries to crawl into my lap when I sit down out there. When I scratch her on the chest she even pats her back leg like a dog! I don't know how anybody can help but want to play with these guys! They're way too darn cute! Oh, and I do have a ewe that's a great pet. Her name is Cookie (because the kids love to feed her oatmeal cookies thru the fence) and she works just fine. It's that pesky hormonal ram out there that's an idiot with the dogs. He'll be going along just fine with the rest of the sheep and then all of a sudden break off and want to fight. It took a couple of hard nips on the nose (drawing blood) from Red to get him back in line. Then he does OK for a while and all of a sudden he'll do it again. I never know what kind of mood he's going to be in. One of these days he'll catch me in a mood and I'll have his furry butt in the freezer! I wanted to switch to a dorper ram anyway! Thanks Inci and Bill for the advice and websites. I only have one more ewe due now. She looks so much bigger than the others were that she may have triplets! So I may be back with more questions in a while. I can always get in touch with you guys faster than I can get thru on the phone with my vet! Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot me not Posted February 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Oh Yeah, on the tail docking thing. My sheep are all Katahdins, or Katahdin-Barbado X's. Of course they're promoted as not needing tail docks but all of mine but one were docked when I bought them. The one that has a tail has never had a problem. How do you guys feel about docking the hair breeds? Inci, did you find your dog? This lambing thing really is fun! I just feel woefully inadequate from lack of experience. I have LOTS of experience with horses, cattle, dogs, cats etc. but just never had sheep before. And with those horses you really have to be on a hair trigger at foaling time so maybe I tend to be a little on edge. Thanks again, guys. I REALLY appreciate you! Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 RE: tail docking If you have little problem with flies, and keep close enough tabs to make sure there is no buildup of manure under the tails, and don't mind if your local stockyard docks YOU for having tails...perhaps having tails will suit you... I dock long, covering the anus with even a docked tail - and the stockyard boys don't have conniptions - and it allows the sheep to bruch flies. If, however, stool buildup occurs, especially on younger lambs, then you will regret having much tail at all - flies will actually burrow in and eat thier way up the digestive tract...so watch them carefully... I also dock when I castrate - so it isn't such a big deal to me - although it is to the lambs, but castration HAS to occur, I simply don't have enough room and don't want to pay the price (in lost money) for selling ram lambs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evans Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Try 1-800-jeffers. They are in Dothan Al. They have lamb milk replacer and it will get to you the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 I dock with the elastrator bands applied within 24 hours of birth. Leave enough tail to cover all the bare skin areas. It's the lowest-stress method of docking I've found yet, including not docking at all. Do not, under any circumstances, dock the way show sheep are docked, in which all the tail is removed. Such sheep are too likely to have rectal prolapses (rates approach 10 percent in show-docked lambs and are nearly non existant in lambs with proper tailing) and they have no way of keeping flies off themselves. In some parts of the country, a tail is a desirable thing. For certain ethnic festivals the lamb is supposed to be utterly entire -- no docking, no castration, no ear notches. I know that lambs with fat tails bring more money at Orthodox Easter sales than those without tails. But in the general commodity lamb market, a long tail is generally looked upon as a sign that the lamb was not well managed, and prices are bid lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi44 Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Try TSC for milk replacer. They aren't great on lamb supplies, but ours does carry lamb milk replacer. Ask for it if they don't - if they hear it enough times, they might start getting it. Also, if you have an older ewe that produces a lot of milk, freeze some of her colostrum (ice cube trays are great for this) to have a supply just in case of an emergency. I agree with the elastrator bands - been doing it for years and haven't had a problem. Might have to watch in early fall or late spring for fly problems with it, but for the most part, it works great. I castrate that way, too. Just make sure you have both testicles in the scrotum before you let the band off the pliers. If you don't want to raise a bottle baby, advertise or contact your local county extension office. Our county mini-4-H has an orphan lamb and goat project. It saves you the time and expense of raising one, and you can even sell them sometimes (if I really don't have the time, inclination, etc., I'll give one away). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Okay, I was planning on doing the elastrator bands for tails and castrating. Do I castrate also within 24 hours? One little warning about Jeffers..they screwed up big time getting me lamb milk replacer when I needed it. Kept telling me it was on the way and it never showed up until 5 phones calls and two weeks later. BTW Inci there's a nice piece of property right down the road from me. Not to rub salt in any wounds BUT this weather is to die for..mornings and afternoon perfect for working dogs..Midday it's warm enough to jump in the pool.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrider Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 I can loan you two ewes.. They are both first time moms, and had twins each that didn`t make it. They were big lambs, and we need some new lambs to make use of this great milk supply. A friend of mine uses canned condensed milk for his lambs. Says it saves on mixing, etc, and is available in all grocery stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Amy - Ditto on the elastrator bands. I keep the bands in a jar of alcohol, dip the pliers in there between uses, use a plastic fork to dig the band out, and spray the tail and scrotum with bluecoat - and haven't really had a problem with infection at all. That might be overkill, but it works for me. One thing, testicles may not drop until the lamb is a day or two old, so I wait until then to dock and castrate. I kinda go by the rule in the UK - it is actually illegal to use the bands on a lamb more than 7 days old there - so do my banding between 3 days and a week - that also allows me to gather up a bunch at a time to do...although the commotion made by mama's will make your neighbors think you are torturing sheep... If the scrotum is removed, even without both testicles in place, the chance for the ram to be fertile is pretty small, in reality - I'm pretty darn sure that in my years of doing castrations that I've missed a testicle or two - but they stay up in the body and cannot develop viable sperm (similar to a cryptorchid, I figure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Bill, Regarding "slips" ... A friend of mine had two lambs born last August via immaculate conception. At least one of her wethers is actually a slip, and when the temps got low enough in March he was apparently fertile long enough to breed two ewes. Now, the only question is ... which one is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Like Inci, I don't keep the little buggers longer than 5 - 6 months depending on the market...so I used to not castrate - and have compared rate of growth to price for castrated and uncastrated... Actually, it appears as if rate of growth can make up for uncastrated at even the "normal" markets - unfortunately, it also gives one the reputation of "not managing" the flock well as Bill F. pointed out...something you don't want as the buyers examine the last 100 lambs you brought in... Pipestone Vet did a short study on leaving testes intact, noted a higher rate of growth, and then at 6 months used a "callitrate" bander - this is a cattle bander that uses surgical tubing - I've always wanted one, but they cost like $150 or so - and found that while the new wethers did lie down for several hours, there was NO weight loss - indicating that perhaps the stress wasn't what we would think it would be... Oh, and Inci, don't change a thing, even with a free trip to Caracas - you're beautiful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 You know, you can just milk her and feed the baby until you get the milk replacer . . . This way the babe gets antibodies (the absorption tapers) and may help her milk supply come in (demand leads to supply). Also, as the small lamb gets larger, it may be able to compete more effectively and you won't have to intervene. I've gotten to the point where I'll do almost anything to keep a lamb with the mother rather than bottle feed (especially if it requires pulling the lamb off the mother in the first few days) - the results (of bottle feeding) just don't merit the effort. Kim Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot me not Posted February 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 Well, I didn't have to bottle feed this girl. I just started putting her bossy brother in an X-pen for a couple of hours 3 times a day for several days so the girl could nurse undisturbed. Worked wonders even though the brother didn't appreciate having to share! Now she's within a pound of him and they're gaining at an equal rate, 1/2 pound each a day. Now I only have one more ewe at this time that's due. She's bagged up really nicely and looks ready to go. I can't wait! Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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