BorderCollie86 Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Maybe I wasn't clear enough on what "rough him up meant". I basically grabbed him and removed him from my area. But given that he was actively biting me, I did grab him more physically than usual (couldn't do the usual, he was struggling) I didn't hit him. So in otherwords, yes I lost my cool a bit but I still stuck mostly within the bounds of what I was told by trainers. Putting him in his crate when he's escalated or tantruming is actually what I was told NOT to do. Because supposedly it will make him see crating as punishment or a negative experience. I'm not an expert, just sharing what the local trainer's have said. I think we are an amazing match overall and one tantrum won't change that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 So in otherwords, yes I lost my cool a bit but I still stuck mostly within the bounds of what I was told by trainers. Putting him in his crate when he's escalated or tantruming is actually what I was told NOT to do. Because supposedly it will make him see crating as punishment or a negative experience. Huh. It is so hard to know how to interpret over the internet, but I agree with Gentle Lake that if my pup was acting out, I would be thinking that he is overtired (thus causing the bad behavior). The kindest thing you can do for him is to put him in a time-out which usually means a crate. If you put a treat or toy in there with him, he should not associate it with punishment. If he is overtired, he will probably crash within a few minutes of being crated - which will tell you that he was overtired. [And no, I don't think that treating him when you pick him up and put him in the crate is a reinforcement for his previous bad behavior.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollie86 Posted April 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Yea, the idea he was tired was very possible and good to think about. I've never had kids so it's all new to me . I didn't know the timeout she referred to could include toys. Assumed she meant punishment. Today he was way better. When I calmly told him no in a firm tone, he backed off and laid down. Did this multiple times. Like most conflicts in life with humans even, it's all about figuring out the best way to communicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 I got a refund on mine because they told me my BC/lab mix was Shar-pei/Standard Poodle mix with no herding breed or lab mixed in. LOL Sometimes those tests come out wacky! :blink: :lol: :lol: !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Kira's mom I'm in the same boat. Yelping and all those things trainer's suggest don't do squat to stop biting for Ares. Today he was so wound up he actually attacked me and snarled. He was having a bout of the "zoomies" and turned his focus to wrestling me. I basically had to rough him up and scold him to get him to stop! Yelping, walking away etc... none of it works. If I walk away he thinks we are playing and will follow me as he tugs on my shorts/pants. Overall he's an incredibly good dog and I love him. In public everyone is amazed with his behavior and temperament. Just this biting seems to be progressing last 2 or 3 days. He only does it with me for some reason. Yet he's also most submissive/obedient to me. So I don't think it's a dominance thing? I second, third and fourth the time-out when that happens. It's the puppy zoomies and it just means he's over-stimulated and over-tired. It's the same thing as the 2 year old who throw himself on the supermarket floor and screams like he's being disambowled. He just needs a nap! The crate is your friend and it will be his, too. Don't get made, don't get upset, don't react at all. Just stand up out of his reach, pick him up and put him in his crate with a toy and/or treats. He may fuss initially, but treats are a great way to change his tune and chewie toys are a great way for an over-tired puppy to put himself down for a nap. I've done it with several pups over the years and it works. This too shall pass! ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollie86 Posted April 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 You ladies and gents were right about crate. Been putting him in for timeouts (as well as the patio) and he calms down after a couple minutes, then we reset. I even let him sleep in there last night. No issues after whining for 1-2 minutes. I just throw toys in with him and treat when he's good and being let out. His bladder control is pretty amazing for his age. Even though I let him sleep on floor next to my bed he doesn't pee or poop in my room. He went from 11 lbs to 14.5 lbs in about 11 or 12 days. So he's gaining weight pretty fast. I definitely think he's on pace to be 40+ lbs. DNA results are due back in 2 weeks. One interesting thing is the older he gets, the more intense his Border Collie traits get. He wants to herd everything. Toys, me, puppies in his class. It's not easy breaking the inherent traits. He had his first puppy preschool class. He was one of the better puppies (out of 30) in terms of behavior in general. Unfortunately, he was a bully. He plays rough due to no socialization with dogs much prior so he kept targeting scared/weaker dogs. He would herd them into a corner..mount them and bite the back of their neck. It was really weird. Good news is tonight the teacher is putting him with bigger puppies (mastiffs, newfoundland's, labs) to see how he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 One interesting thing is the older he gets, the more intense his Border Collie traits get. He wants to herd everything. Toys, me, puppies in his class. It's not easy breaking the inherent traits. He had his first puppy preschool class. He was one of the better puppies (out of 30) in terms of behavior in general. Unfortunately, he was a bully. He plays rough due to no socialization with dogs much prior so he kept targeting scared/weaker dogs. He would herd them into a corner..mount them and bite the back of their neck. It was really weird. Good news is tonight the teacher is putting him with bigger puppies (mastiffs, newfoundland's, labs) to see how he does. Actually, I think a lot of people mistakenly presume that "herding" is an urge that border collies apply to everything, but there's a difference between herding and motion reactivity. As you say, it's bullying when applied to other dogs and has nothing to do with a border collie's instinct to govern livestock. Keep us posted how he does with the larger puppies. Perhaps they can help him learn some more appropriate behavior. But I would definitely work with him to help him govern those behaviors before he gets big and starts getting himself into trouble. ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollie86 Posted April 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Oh okay. Good to know . He was way better last night in class two. Pretty much a star. He's so food driven and focused on me that the little obstacle course she had us do that so many dogs struggled with, was incredibly easy for him. He also wasn't as bad with the mounting etc. Worst he did was get an entire toy chihuahua's head in his mouth lol. The timeouts you guys suggested are still working fabulously. If he gets too amped, aggressive etc and all needs are met I put on patio or in crate for like 5 min. When I let him out he's much better behaved. He's actually starting to enjoy patio and it calms him listening to the birds and watching the deer/animals that pass through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollie86 Posted April 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 I've learned that usually when he's biting a lot or clingy, he wants something. Once I take him pee, feed/water or nap him... he stops. Like someone mentioned seems a lot like human babies. If needs are met, they don't act out nearly as much. I've never been a father, so maybe this is good practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 OMG! There are TOY chihuahuas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollie86 Posted April 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 OMG! There are TOY chihuahuas? I think? It had to be at least a mini right? It's like 10 or 12 weeks and weighs probably 1 lbs at most. Unless I'm just really bad with small dog weights lol. Let's just say my dog's mouth isn't even that big and he fit the whole neck+head of this dog in it with room to spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 AFAIK, there's not any "official" smaller type of Chi as there is in poodles. But lots of people do seem to try to breed smaller versions and sell them for premium prices. They're usually called teacup Chihuahuas and sometimes toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollie86 Posted April 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 That's what the owner called it! Thanks for clarifying. So question for anyone .. is it normal for Border Collies to make their own agility course in the house? Today mine has the "zoomies" and is crawling under table, running around his crate,jumping over his toy and repeating this circuit hah. I think I may have a natural agility pup some day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 That's what the owner called it! Thanks for clarifying. So question for anyone .. is it normal for Border Collies to make their own agility course in the house? Today mine has the "zoomies" and is crawling under table, running around his crate,jumping over his toy and repeating this circuit hah. I think I may have a natural agility pup some day? Yup, totally normal! Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 I'd be worried about the pup if he didn't do it. Not that it means it's OK. He still has to learn how to behave in the house, so by all means discourage it. But, yes, it's totally normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollie86 Posted April 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 He's getting too smart. Now he is trying to undo the side door crate latches as he barks at it (from the outside of it). He is literally lifting and pulling the latch in the right direction. Only reason he can't get it is he lacks the dexterity for now and gets distracted chewing the plastic on it. He observes me closely when I put him in there. Damn rascal lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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