KJT Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 My BC pup is leaving a trail of destruction in his wake! He has chewed on doors inside, he has chewed through my other dogs wooden kennel, plants, now the wood boards of the house! He is 10months old and has his adult teeth. He gets a 30-45min walk in the mornings, with at least 20mins of that off leash running and playing with our other dog at the park. He is then left at home for 6-8 hours while we are at work. He is left with 3-4 stuffed kongs (frozen with various goodies), at least 2 small rawhide chew bones and he has to get his kibble breakfast from a kong wobbler. He also has a bucket of toys that get changed every few days. He has my other dog for company and my neighbour checks over the fence at lunchtime. He gets another 45min walk in the afternoons, plus mental stimulation (tricks, early foundation agility work). We cannot leave big meaty cannon bones, due to the fact our other dog cannot handle them (diahorhea for days). I do not want to crate him during the day (he is crated at night). It is not every day we come home to chewing destruction, probably once a week. I also do not believe it is anxiety from us being away from the house (neighbour always says he is happy, plays with other dog during the day, no whining, sleeps etc, plus he is always clam and happy when we get home). So two questions I have.... 1) any more advice to keep him "busy" during the day. 2) what do you recommend to put on the kennel and weather boards of our house to stop further destruction? Have tried ceyenne pepper, special spray from the vet (he licked that all off thinking it was great!). What else have people used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jescano Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 2) what do you recommend to put on the kennel and weather boards of our house to stop further destruction? Have tried ceyenne pepper, special spray from the vet (he licked that all off thinking it was great!). What else have people used? a crate. Do you really want him to chew something dangerous that could potentially kill him? Or happily chew on toys in his den waiting for you to get home. he has not proven himself trustworthy to be loose... did you just get him or have you had him since 8 weeks? My dog is crate trained, when he was younger, he slept in his crate at night, he stayed in his crate while I was at work. Then when i considered him house trained I let him stay out at night, he's gonna sleep not chew. Then I would slowly leave him uncrated for longer periods of time, always with the same precautions as you, lots of stuff to entertain him. x-pen?(but he can jump out...) might as well put him in a crate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Use a crate when you can't be there to supervise! It makes the house safe from the dog, and the dog safe from the house. And it's a whole lot cheaper than replacing damaged/destroyed materials and paying a big vet bill for a youngster who's ingested something he/she shouldn't have. By the way, did I mention "crate"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMP Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Going against the grain as usual, I do not recommend a crate as the answer.:/ I recommend that you work with him to teach him what is and is not appropriate to chew. At his age he has a clear understanding of what you like and don't like. I'd wait for him to chew on the inappropriate things and then teach him not to. Since my puppies are wee things I teach them about choices and alternatives - in this case I would make it: chew this or that / chewing this = freedom and chewing that = crate. At his age, it should only take a few lessons. I am not a big believer in the crate as training replacement tool. For such a small, intermittent issue it seems drastic to have the dog's entire life upended (and yours, possibly). Dogs may like crates but one who is used to being free all day will not find the alternative as good, one imagines. YMMV and all that said, I do have a Scottie dog who MUST be crated when not supervised or he will eat every pillow in the house. But he's not a BC and not as trainable. Before going to crate, maybe try training. If he is a persistent chewer a crate might be the only answer - but it sounds like you have other options yet. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cass C Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I know you want to crate, but would it be possible to construct a chain link dog run? That would give extra room and he could only chew on things inside the chainlink run. You may need to put something hard underneath if he is a digger. Just a thought as it sounds like they are outside during the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I would also use a crate. If he chews a power cord it could be really bad. If you were home while the chewing was taking place then I could see how simply training him not to chew the wrong thing would work. But since you're gone then it could be quite hard to catch him in the act and express your displeasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 My puppy is over a year old and he stays in his crate when I am not there. He is out all the time when I am home. I'm still afraid to leave him out by himself. The two older dogs are out all the time except in bad weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 although you may need to crate him for the short term, I do think that CMP's advice of how to teach him what he is allowed to chew (& what he is not) is very sensible. I recommend that you work with him to teach him what is and is not appropriate to chew. At his age he has a clear understanding of what you like and don't like. I'd wait for him to chew on the inappropriate things and then teach him not to. Since my puppies are wee things I teach them about choices and alternatives - in this case I would make it: chew this or that / chewing this = freedom and chewing that = crate. At his age, it should only take a few lessons.I am not a big believer in the crate as training replacement tool. For such a small, intermittent issue it seems drastic to have the dog's entire life upended (and yours, possibly). Dogs may like crates but one who is used to being free all day will not find the alternative as good, one imagines.Good luck. I do something similar and am consistent with what my pups are allowed & what they are not when they are young. I also make sure that my pup has a range of toys that mimic as close as possible the different texture of things that she likes to chew .. I think this is important. With my own 6 month pup, I've convinced myself that she has now learnt what is appropriate to chew (I'm also confident that all the dogs are now comfortable with each other.) So in the last week, I've just started leaving her out from her crate over night and also if I'm out for upto a 3-4 of hours during the day. However, I make sure I don't leave anything too tempting that she is not allowed within easy reach & I also make sure there is no food or dirty plates left on the tables & work surfaces. So far, she has stuck to her own toys. but I appreciate that all dogs are different. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jescano Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I recommend that you work with him to teach him what is and is not appropriate to chew. At his age he has a clear understanding of what you like and don't like. I'd wait for him to chew on the inappropriate things and then teach him not to. Since my puppies are wee things I teach them about choices and alternatives - in this case I would make it: chew this or that / chewing this = freedom and chewing that = crate. At his age, it should only take a few lessons. I am not a big believer in the crate as training replacement tool. For such a small, intermittent issue it seems drastic to have the dog's entire life upended (and yours, possibly). Dogs may like crates but one who is used to being free all day will not find the alternative as good, one imagines. I do completely agree with CMP that you need to train your dog not to chew. But until then, crate him until you know he won't. I definitely did not mean your dog chews so he'll always be a chewer and he needs to be crated forever. But work on the appropriate chewing while you're there and slowly give him his alone freedom back. appropriate chewing is as important as housebreaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfisher7151 Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I will second both the crate and the chewing guidance. He definitely can (and should) be taught what is and is not available for chewing. But when you're not there, he only is reinforcing the behavior by chewing the untouchables without any form of correction, redirection, or whatever suits your fancy. I have a 7 mo old pup who had appeared to be quite reliable when left loose at first. But then things started to go downhill. It was only when I came home to find an oboe case and reed knife chewed to bits and him pooping out wads of...uh...hygiene products that I realized that the chewing could cost him his life. So into the crate he goes. I would much rather not have to crate him, but until I'm positive that he wouldn't chew anything I can't take the risk. And I wouldn't if I were you, either. The more things he chews, the more difficult it will be to break the habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm with the crate-him-till-you-can-trust-him camp. Every time he chews something it's self rewarding. And if you're not there to teach him better, then he needs to be prevented from engaging in a self rewarding behavior. Yes, teach him what's appropriate to chew and what's not. But, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, you can't do that if you're not there to supervise. I'm not sure I've ever had a pup I felt comfortable with giving the run of the house to when I was working at his age. Too little maturity and too many opportunities for them to get themselves into trouble. Let him earn his freedom when he's proved he's reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 If he chews a power cord it could be really bad. It only takes a second for a dog to chew through a power cord. If you can't keep cords out of reach, you can use a GFCI Adapter on the outlet to prevent electrical shocks. At only $13 (amazon price) it's cheap insurance. I've never kept a puppy in a crate after house-training. I just do a good job puppy proofing some section of the house and keep them there when not at home. But I would never leave a puppy or young dog alone for more than 4 hours. Either I would come home for lunch or have a pet walker come by. On the original topic, if these are indoor dogs being left in the yard all day, I can see where that could be a problem. Many dogs don't like being excluded from the “den”- And chewing on the house might be a not-so-subtle message. The alternatives are to keep them inside, install a pet door (guarantee they'll spend most of their time indoors) or if you must, a chain link kennel outside. IMO, confining dogs to a yard all day is an invitation to trouble. Barking, escaping, being stolen, tormented by neighborhood kids, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 A crate was never intended to take the place of training but rather to be a tool that along with training, helps keep a dog safe and secure, and your household safe and secure as well. One thing you can do with a crated youngster is to make sure that he has safe, approved, appropriate chewies in his crate. They will keep him occupied when he's awake, help reinforce that he chews certain things (and not the house or furnishings), and help him keep his mouth clean. You crate him at night - is there a reason for this at this age? Perhaps he could be trusted to sleep through the night now (and let you do the same) and then you could dispense with crating at night. Or, if he's sleeping through the night, what difference does it make if he is crated at night, as he won't be doing anything anyway? I have three dogs, all of whom sleep in the bedroom at night on dog beds. During the work day, when no one is home, one is usually loose. One is crated as she will bark at anything and everything, and gets everyone else riled up if she's loose and barking. One is in an x-pen attached to his crate because he does not get along as well as we'd like with the first dog I mentioned. None of them were ever left loose in the house without supervision until I was completely sure they were going to behave in a safe manner. (Once the work on the house is finished, the crates and locations of dogs may be changed to what it used to be, which was the noisy one crated, and each of the other two loose but in separated parts of the house. Routine is important to these dogs and once they are acclimated to a routine (including crating or not crating) they tend to adjust and be comfortable as long as the routine is reasonable. Best wishes working something out that solves your problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Going against the grain as usual, I do not recommend a crate as the answer.:/ I recommend that you work with him to teach him what is and is not appropriate to chew. At his age he has a clear understanding of what you like and don't like. I'd wait for him to chew on the inappropriate things and then teach him not to. Since my puppies are wee things I teach them about choices and alternatives - in this case I would make it: chew this or that / chewing this = freedom and chewing that = crate. At his age, it should only take a few lessons. I am not a big believer in the crate as training replacement tool. For such a small, intermittent issue it seems drastic to have the dog's entire life upended (and yours, possibly) I don't believe in crating as a substitute for training, either. But the OP makes it pretty clear that whatever this pup is trained to know, it IS having bouts of boredom or whatever that, personally, I would fear could get him in serious trouble. Remember, she said: My BC pup is leaving a trail of destruction in his wake! He has chewed on doors inside, he has chewed through my other dogs wooden kennel, plants, now the wood boards of the house! But she's said that he's NOT doing these things when she's home and able to correct him. He's doing it when the family is gone at work and there's nothing to stop him from it. How, then, is a 10 month old pup expected to exercise the kind of self restraint one would hope for, when he's free to indulge in his self-rewarding destructiveness whenever she's not home? Training is good. Training is ideal. Training works. But until the pup is solid in his training, he obviously needs a little something extra, or this discussion would not be happening. I suspect the pup is simply becoming bored during the day and it's just plain FUN to go on these occasional little rampages. Until he outgrows that stage, I definitely recommend restricting his ability to do this. The no-chew spray remedies don't work and the novelty of his toys wears off. Therefore, fixing his situation so that he's unable to indulge those impulses is, to me, the safest thing. If not a crate, then perhaps a reinforced, roofed x-pen or even a chain link kennel. But if he's wrecking doors and the siding on the house, it's not good - even if it's only once a week. He could end up seriously injuring himself or doing some costly damage. Until such time as he is trained and trustworthy, even when she's not home, it sounds to me that he needs more than a few spritzes of Bitter Apple or capsicum no-chew spray. Respectfully, Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I kept my pups in crates when I couldn't watch them. They had "uncrated" privileges when I could keep my eagle eye on them. My dogs (as pups) ruined hardly *anything*. One or two ball-point pens, and the tops of a knitting needle or two? a bit of loose wallpaper? An empty paper towel core they snuck out of the recycling basket??? They never got in the habit of destroying things, only in chewing toys that they were allowed. I think the fact that I could trust them to spend the night uncrated at a relatively early age (~ 6 months) stems from the fact that I never allowed them to fall into the habit of destroying their surroundings. In other words: I'm a big fan of crates. Best thing since sliced bread. And no, my dogs don't spend multiple hours per day in crates (unless we're traveling). They come to work with me, spend the day uncrated in my office (has been true since ~6 months of age), come home, spend the rest of their time, and their nights, uncrated (crate doors are open). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptJack Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I crate when I'm not there to supervise until good habits are well and truly established, and gradually loosen up as they figure things out. Related: I have found the best help for teaching dogs what to chew and what not to chew is a toy box. They know that ANY time they get a toy out of that box, it's a legal plaything. It's really cut down them picking up random things from around the house to chew. Yeah, there's a lot of picking up and returning to the box at first, but it really makes a difference. I can even, at this point, throw an old sock with a knot in it into the box and not worry they're going to steal socks my husband and kids seem determined to leave lying around. If it came out of the box, it's legal and theirs to play with and they learn fast (when consistently directed to it) where to go to find something to play with/chew/do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemsMom Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 A month ago I made an emergency trip to the vet because my puppy decided to eat the carpet. I was outside working and my daughter decided to practice piano and let the puppy play with her toys in the living room. My pup is fine. It only cost me fuel for the car, the $100 vet bill, and the cost of a milkshake to soothe my 12 year old who thought she had killed her puppy. Earlier this week I was in the shower and when I came out my daughter was practicing the piano and told me, "I put Nattie in the crate because I didn't want to give her the chance to eat the carpet again". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJT Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Thanks for your comments, lots of things to consider and think about. Just to clarify a few things for questions asked above by various people and also a few assumptions. I have had him since he was 8 weeks. He has been crated since day 1 with me, initially at all periods during the day when he could not be supervised and throughout the night. He was moved to an x-pen at 4 months old when not supervised until he worked out he could clamber over Right from the time we bought him home we have worked with him on understanding what is his to chew (toys, chew bones) and what is not. When he was younger, if he picked up anything not "his", we replaced it with a chew or a toy. He has never chewed anything not his inside or outside when we have been home. He has a toy box inside and outside and he knows these are his. Someone asked why he is still crated at night, rather than give him freedom at night to be able to crate during the day - this is because we travel regularly for agility events and horse events. When staying in motels he has to either be crated in the dog trailer overnight or in the motel with us in a crate, therefore we like to keep the same routine at home. We moved him outside with our other dog during the day 6 weeks ago as he had proved that he could be left unsupervised after a period of 2 months of gradually leaving him outside for short periods of time (starting at 2-3 hours and gradually extending the time left up to 8 hours). The first 3 weeks we left him for full days, he did not chew a thing, it has only been the last 3 weeks this has started. I showed a dog breeder friend his chewing areas today and she laughed at me saying I had made it out to be a lot worse than it actually was, so maybe my initial statement of "leaving a path of destruction" was a little over-dramatised lol! CMP I totally agree that the crate is not a replacement tool for correct training and maybe he has lulled me in to a false sense of belief that he was ready for long periods outside! As he has never chewed anything while we have been home, it has been hard to train him that this behaviour is not acceptable... Would be a lot easier if we could catch him in the act! I personally do not like the idea of crating for 8 hours during the day - this is my personal belief and likewise my horses are also not stabled during the day. If I only worked 4-5 hours tops then I would think differently but I just do not like the idea of that long in a crate when he has spent the night in it. Again, this is my personal belief and I am totally understanding of the fact that others may not agree with this. My husband and I have had a good talk about it tonight and thrown around some ideas. My lovely husband has agreed to put in a new fence and gate down the side of the house where we can put Rylin during the day where he is safe and cannot chew anything other than his own chews and toys. Hopefully this might do the trick until he outgrows this phase! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I understand your reasoning about night crating but in our case, for instance, when we are visiting certain places, our dogs do spend the night in crates/x-pens, which they are not accustomed to at home. Since they are used to crate time at home (when we are at work), this does not seem to be an issue at all, but your mileage could vary as each dog is an individual. I would probably not crate during the day if I only had one or two trustworthy dogs (our dogs are never out in a yard like it appears that yours is during the day) - except the noisy one because she does much better in a crate than loose in terms of her reactivity to things happening outside. Part of my daytime crating is due to poor relations between two, stemming from the older, not-confident dog's issues with the younger dog. It sounds like your dog is left outside in the yard while you are gone? That is something few people here would agree with as it is a less secure and safe option - not totally safe from trespassing animals or people with ill intent, or even the possibility of an unexpected escape. Everyone has to do what works for them and there are many different feelings on the subject of dogs and their keeping. PS - Our horses were not confined, either. Neither my mare nor my daughter's gelding would stay sound when stabled but did wonderfully when living the life of a pasture horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptJack Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 The other thing to consider is that if the dog is ever at the vet or needs to travel, being familiar and comfortable crated is going to save the dog a lot of stress - even if it's allowed out at the final destination. I don't crate my adult dogs more than for meals or, when we're gone, we usually crate one or two dogs as a means of making sure the dogs are all separated (my particular mix of dogs, I don't like leaving lose together without somebody around to interrupt any potential problem behavior - one's deaf and can't hear back off signals, and there's a huge size difference). But I absolutely make sure they like their crates, are comfortable in their crates, consider their crates good places to be. Given a choice, about half the time any individual dog will choose to nap in their open crates rather than a sofa or bed. I don't care if anyone else does or doesn't crate - it is, after all, just another tool- but I DO seriously encourage that the dog at least be trained to be accepting and calm when crated. Sooner or later the dog is going to need to be confined in a cage for some reason - and I do not want a dog who ends up at the vet sick or injured, or even being confined to crate rest to recover, being introduced to the idea for the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Very true, but this dog is already accustomed to the crate for night-time and so would probably not be overly stressed in an emergency situation. People who do not crate-train a dog are doing it a disservice for the very reasons you mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaserrano Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Tess was crated during the night till she was 9 months old. Now, at 14 mo, she still stays in the crate when Im off to work. For many months now she hasn't chewed on almost anything she's not suposed to when I'm home, but that's almost. This past 3 weeks, she has: destroyed a roll of toilet paper; taken my boots to the living room - she didn't chew them I supose because I found her soon enough; taken a couple things off the table - again she didn't destroy them because I found her soon enough. To be fair all these where connected with her feeling bored. But bottom line is I still don't trust her to be free when I'm not home. Then again today I came home from a 3 hour meeting to find out she wasn't on her crate, where I had put her. I supose I didn't close it right. AND she hadn't destroyed anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 FWIW, I have outdoor kennels that I'm comfortable leaving my dogs in during the day. It can be done safely if you live in the right area with a decent amount of land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJT Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 A few people have commented about the danger aspect of leaving him outside, i.e the possibility of being stolen, let out, escape etc. I live in Australia and it's very common to still leave your dog outside in the yard during the day. I am very comfortable leaving him outside while we are gone and those things are not a concern where I live. He is also very comfortable and happy in his crate at night (or when we are home and can't supervise him), so the crate training is not an issue, it's just personal preference to be able to leave him outside, but obviously now his recent chewing escapades have reminded me that he obviously cannot be fully trusted just yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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