Too Ruff?

[CurlyQ]

If you don't know, I have two dogs now. A bc puppy named Maple (about 10 lbs) who will be nine weeks tomorrow and a year old Yorkie named Pippa (about 5 lbs). The two get along great for the most part.

 

I always monitor play (partly because I never take my eyes off the puppy), and recently I've noticed it getting very rough. Maple is starting to realize that she is bigger and stronger than Pippa. Pippa tends to be pretty gentle when it comes to play, she always has been. The puppy, on the other hand, is still learning the meaning of the word gentle. When I see Pippa is having enough, I hold the puppy and ask her to sit and work on some self-control. I often give the command "gentle". I hope she realizes that rough play gets a temporary time-out. If play gets too rough and the puppy isn't listening, I take her outside to cool off for a bit or I remove one of them from the situation.

 

However, I have yet to see improvement. Maple has started pulling Pippa. She grabs her paws or some cheek fur in her mouth and pulls Pippa around. I know this probably hurts Pippa. It hurts me when Maple mouths too hard. Sometimes Pippa tries to put Maple in her place, but to no avail. Maple thinks it's playing. When this happens I immediately remove one of them from the situation.

 

I feel like this might get a bit dangerous if I don't nip it in the bud. I don't know how to deal with it myself, since I've never had such a size difference. I've had big dogs all my life, and Pippa is the first little dog. Any advice? I don't want to keep them separate forever, and both parties want to play with each other (I've seen both Pippa and Maple instigate play). We're just having a hard time finding a middle ground.

 

Pippa and my friend's flat coat get along fine. They found a way to play despite the 55 lbs weight difference. I'm hoping to help inspire something along the lines of that with my puppy.

 

Other than this problem, everything concerning the puppy is wonderful! She's smart, happy, and learning fast. Just this morning she asked me to go outside to potty for the first time (normally I take her out every two hours or so, but for once she asked to go out of her own free will)! She's started sleeping through the night, too. Such a quick learner, she makes me so proud.

 

Photo of Maple

https://www.flickr.com/photos/123522331@N03/14622462346/

 

Photo of Pippa playing with my friend's flat coat

https://www.flickr.com/photos/123522331@N03/14123976293/

[gcv-border]

You are doing the right thing with the time-outs, IMHO. Maple is just a puppy with no/very little self control at her age so you will have to continue monitoring for quite a while longer - weeks/months?

 

I am taking 'puppy class' with my pup right now, and I like how the instructor arranges 'play-dates' for the pups. Both pups are on leash. (In your case, only Maple needs a leash.) In the beginning, we allow them to interact for the count of 3, then separate them. As we begin to understand how each puppy interacts, we may let them play longer - IF neither puppy goes over threshold to become too aggressive/playful. I have seen improvement in gentle play with at least 2 puppies in class.

 

I think you may have to step in sooner. Don't let it escalate to cheek pulling or other bad behavior. Jump in the milli-second that you see raised ruff, body checking, mouthing, etc. You may also want to allow less interaction between the two. IOW, only allow interaction when you are right there to separate them quickly. And definitely allow cool-down periods between play-dates.

 

BTW, my friend has a couple of Flat Coats, and my puppy loved playing with her gentle boy. Once Kiefer got over the size difference (the Flattie is ~70 lbs), he was very playful.

[Mom of Mya]

We have had 3 yorkies over 27 years all under 10 pounds. . For 15-1/2 years we had a yorkie 4-5 pounds and an American Eskimo 45 pounds. . It sounds like you are doing pretty good monitoring them. One thing I would do differently when the pup is playing too hard pick pippa up and ignore the pup totally. . It shouldn't take long before the pup realizes playing too hard loses her the play, playmate and your attention. . By picking the pup up and giving her attention you reinforce the bad behavior because she gets your attention. . Also by picking pippa up you reinforce to her that you are the pack leader and you will protect her. Now if pippa is the one who becomes aggressive or snippy reverse it and ignore her. .

 

Also pippa was mature well before being a year old. Yorkies go through the puppy phase very quickly. So give pippa some time away from the pup and with you on her own. . Maybe when you put the pup in the crate for a nap. Or do you have a x pen or possibly a play pen or even a pet gate. Something where the pup could play but where pippa could still have her space too and not have to deal with the pup all the time if she gets tired of it and wants to get away from it. .

[Mom of Mya]

Did any of the above help you out? I am really surprised that your Pippa is not being more forceful. I don't think I have seen a yorkie that didn't stand their ground and she can make Mable yelp when she decides to. My daughter was up this weekend with her 2 dogs (male yorkie 8 pounds almost 5 years and female pup 11 months 60 pounds mix of german shepherd, husky and lab). When Mya and Dixie were getting too rough, Dash got down in between them and broke them both up!! He made them both back off in no uncertain terms. Probably not a good place for him to be in between those two girls but he didn't hesitate. When he has enough of Dixie pestering him, I have heard him mean business and bit her somewhere that made her yelp and back off and leave him alone. Mya keeps an eye on Dash at all times and does a down position when he comes at her for now.

[CurlyQ]

Yes, actually! I still do time-out them when things are getting too rough.

 

The vet lectured us on how Pippa is an adult dog, and we should only intervene if Pippa cries/tells the puppy to back off and the puppy doesn't. We tried this strategy out, and it's working beautifully.

 

I think the problem was perception. What we were thinking was too rough, Pippa didn't mind. Since we stopped intervening, both have been playing a lot more. Whenever the puppy gets too rough, which is rarely, Pippa grips Maple's upper lip until Maple yelps and backs down. No harm done. I think Pippa is loving having a playmate, and the puppy enjoys having a friend who is never too tired to play (like me after waking up 3 times in the middle of the night to let her out).

 

I still monitor them closely, and I've only had to separate them once. Ironically, Pippa was the one who was causing the problem. Thanks for the advice, guys!

[CMP]

Glad to see your second reply. I had typed a long bit about letting the dogs sort out the order and play rules - only intervening if one of the dogs was in clear distress. Then I figured that was probably very UN-PC and deleted without posting :/

 

Our working dogs (more than a dozen still working, six in training and four semi-retired seniors) all must sort out their differences themselves - our dog guy (my brother) says intervention creates more long term social and behavioural trouble than the short term benefit is worth. YMMV.

 

Molly, the youngest puppy and the only BC on the premises not bred here, will run to the individual dog's handler if she feels threatened. Not me, as I am likely to say, "Oh, suck it up, buttercup, you asked for that" whereas the handler is likely to stop the dog she has offended from teaching her the lesson he had in mind :/

 

Your posts always make me smile. You're so enthusiastic and caring about your dog. I love that.

[CurlyQ]

Normally I would've let them get right to it, but the size difference was making me incredibly nervous. One wrong move from either side could have devastating consequences. (Learned that the hard way. My grandfather's german shepherd accidentally killed a kitten.) I just wanted to make sure that Maple wouldn't hurt Pippa either on accident or on purpose, although I understand Pippa is not a young kitten .

 

Also, thank you. I try to be enthusiastic. It's hard not to be enthusiastic about doing something I love.

[Mom of Mya]

Sounds like you are doing great and having fun. . I know people here in the US are ruining the yorkies a lot by treating them like babies. They were bred to be hunters and are made of good stuff. Just because they are small people tend to forget that and treat them like puppies. Pippa will stand her ground. . Our neighbors 8 pound yorkie flipped a German Shepherd over and had it by the throat because it growled at his people. . They are small but they are dogs and yes Pippa may cause some upset but she's telling the pup the pecking order and she was there first. . Lol.

[Mom of Mya]

Yorkies are also very fast just like collies, Mya and dixie neither one can catch dash right now if he does not want them to. There are a lot of yorkies in agility classes here and do fantastic so if you are going to consider agility you might think of it for Pippa too. .