Merle

[waffles]

Today I met a chocolate Merle cock-a-poo. I thought, "that exists?!". So of course I googled it and came across an interesting article on Merle cocker spaniels.

 

http://www.asc-cockerspaniel.org/index.php/merle-cockers.html

 

Some of the information was definitely new to me. I didnt realize the rate of health issues could be so high when breeding a Merle to a non Merle.

 

I was surprised to read this about the AKC-

 

"The AKC-Canine Health Foundation (AKC-CHF) lists Merle as a disease for which there is a genetic test. The AKC-CHF has therefore concluded that Merle is detrimental to the breeds"

 

I personally don't have any attraction to Merle coats in any breed but find the topic interesting. It is good to see that the spaniel club strongly disapproves of breeding Merle spaniels.

 

It makes me wonder about the future of dog breeds (breeding). Will we see Merle labs one day? I am sure that Merle cockapoo fetched a hefty price.

[Jumpin Boots]

 

It makes me wonder about the future of dog breeds (breeding). Will we see Merle labs one day? I am sure that Merle cockapoo fetched a hefty price.

The lab world has been dealing with color controversy with regards to the Silver Lab for quite some time now. Many of the traditional Lab people and the hunt trial kennels don't acknowledge the color. However, akc does accept the color and it looks like they bring in a pretty penny so I'm sure we will begin to see more out there.

[waffles]

About a year ago I saw an ad for silver labs in our local paper. The breeder is in my area and they went on and on about how the silver lab is a real lab on their site. Even showed some AKC DNA tests or something to prove that they are not weimaranar mixes.

[juliepoudrier]

So silver is dilute black??? Where did it suddenly come from I wonder. And I also wonder how AKC considering merle as a health issue will affect those breeds for which merle is an accepted or preferred color? I'm guessing people will continue to breed for it, given its popularity among puppy buyers.

 

Oh, and as for the silver labs, if they've got a bunch of them, then there must be some inbreeding going on....

 

J.

[geonni banner]

Silver Labrador Retrievers... What'll they think of next? Wikipedia sez:

 

"Labrador Retrievers are registered in three colours: black (a solid black colour), yellow (anything from the colour that some breeders sell as white or cream to "fox-red"), and chocolate (medium to dark brown). Some dogs are sold as "silver" pure-bred Labradors, but purity of those bloodlines is currently under dispute. Major kennel clubs around the world allow Silver Labradors to be registered, but not as 'Silver'. The Kennel Club (England) requires that they be registered as 'Non-recognized'. The parent club for the Labrador Retriever in the USA (the LRC) states publicly that 'There is no genetic basis for the silver gene in Labradors'. Occasionally Labradors will exhibit small amounts of white on their chest, paws or tail, and rarely a purebred Lab will exhibit brindling (stripes) or tan points similar to a Rottweiler."

 

Looks like a Weimaraner in the woodpile to me...

[Jumpin Boots]

 

 

Looks like a Weimaraner in the woodpile to me...

I met a guy at our clinic who has 3, 2 are related the third is from different lines according to him. They sure seemed very lab-ish. Appearance, coat (although their coats were very dull), size, behavior. Though they did seem to be a little low on the IQ scales, even compared to your average lab.

[geonni banner]

Did a little snooping and came up with this website:

 

http://www.silverlabs.com/controversy.htm#.

[Eileen Stein]

Waffles, I would take this article with a generous sprinkling from the salt shaker.

 

I see a number of problems with it. One example: they refer to a hearing study in Dachshunds (they don't say how many dogs were studied), which "found that over 50% of homozygous dogs and just over 30% heterozygous dogs have auditory problems ranging from mild to severe deafness." From which, they say, we "can conclude that breeding a Merle to a non-merle can result in health problems nearly as frequent as breeding Merle to Merle (30% vs., 50%)" But drop down a few lines to Strain's study, where they say "Only 1 of the 113 dogs was deaf – leading to the conclusion that heterozygous dogs are not prone to deafness." [Emphasis added] Well, which is it?

 

But the most obvious red flag is this sentence, which you quote:

 

>

 

That is a serious overreach. The AKC-CHF does have a list of canine diseases, but merle is not listed as one of them. The AKC-CHF also lists the DNA test for merle on its list of "available canine genetic tests" but merle is not listed as the "Disease" which this test detects. The word next to "Disease" in that listing is "coat." Coat is not a disease.

 

A fair reading of all of this is that (1) AKC-CHF has a list of available canine genetic tests, (2) and because most of these tests are for diseases, that list has a field called "Disease," (3) but merle is not a disease, and therefore (4) merle was not listed as the disease at which this test is aimed. It's just a test designed to detect a gene mutation that affects "coat," which can be used if you want to breed for merle coat coloration, want to avoid breeding merle coat coloration, and/or want to avoid merle-to-merle breedings.

 

The only conclusions I draw from this article are (1) the establishment Cocker Spaniel fanciers REALLY don't want merle in their breed, and (2) one should seriously consider buying stock in corporations that offer canine genetic tests. I wonder how many other breed clubs are educating owners and puppy buyers to have their pets and potential pets tested for a coat coloration that is as rare as this in their breed, is usually detectible by visual inspection, and has not been shown to have produced health problems in their breed.

[waffles]

Thanks for your response Eileen. That is why I quoted the AKC merle is a disease line because I found that a bit confusing. Just like you said, how can merle be a disease??

 

I find it interesting though to branch out and see other 'controversies' going on in different breeds.

 

" One example: they refer to a hearing study in Dachshunds (they don't say how many dogs were studied), which "found that over 50% of homozygous dogs and just over 30% heterozygous dogs have auditory problems ranging from mild to severe deafness." From which, they say, we "can conclude that breeding a Merle to a non-merle can result in health problems nearly as frequent as breeding Merle to Merle (30% vs., 50%)" But drop down a few lines to Strain's study, where they say "Only 1 of the 113 dogs was deaf – leading to the conclusion that heterozygous dogs are not prone to deafness." [Emphasis added] Well, which is it? "

 

I originally read that part several times and still didn't understand what they were getting at. They contradict themselves with the studies they site. I kept thinking, 'well that isn't 30%?!'. I was surprised though that there was any health issues (blindness and deafness) associated with merle to non merle breedings. I wonder what the rate is for different breeds? Maybe their isn't any and that 1 dog was deaf for other reasons...

[Liz P]

There are many undesirable colors that pop up in purebred labs; black and tan, brindle, white markings, etc. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the dilution gene had also been lurking in the population for many generations.

[juliepoudrier]

Nor would anyone be surprised that some enterprising breeder, seeing the unique color, gave it a name and started breeding for it (and probably charging way more $$ for that special color).

[Sue R]

And "silver" instead of gray, "chocolate" instead of brown, "lilac" instead of washed-out brownish, etc., are so much more appealing names! I mean, which name would most people pay more for, the "stylish" name or the plain-jane name?

[Liz P]

People buy liver dogs, so a name is not everything.

[Sue R]

Some people like liver. And that is, I believe, a name of long-standing in the wider animal-naming world.

[juliepoudrier]

I think the real attraction is the uniqueness of their special colored dog. It helps that the color sounds attractive, but I think human ego dictates having the most special one out there.

 

I'll never forget the family that bought (and paid extra for) a "rare blue doberman" back when I was working for a vet while in college. They had no idea that the unique color they bought actually had health issues associated with it, and they hit the jackpot on that one. There's a reason someone (apparently not PT Barnum) said "there's a sucker born every minute."

 

J.