MommaLove Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Our pup, Juno, is 12 weeks old. She'll eventually be trained to herd our sheep & goats, but in the meantime I'm wondering about how to go about exposing her to livestock. Should I keep her away from the goats & sheep until she is older, or is it ok to have her following me around the goat yard while I do my chores? She is a little intimidated by the goats at this age and doesn't seem to know what to make of them. I wonder if daily exposure to them will desensitize Juno somehow, or if is beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjones Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 First of all what a cute pup. Since Juno is just a baby you don't want any bad experiences with the goats and sheep so best to keep her out of the goat yard until she is old enough to start training. There is nothing wrong with taking her with you when you do chores, I did this when my pups were young, but when I would go into the sheep pen or pasture I would tie them outside of it so they would't get in trouble, plus they learned how to be tied and not make a fuss. Work on teaching her basic manners and obedience, so that you have a pup that will grow up to be a enjoyable dog to have around. I would start looking for a trainer near you, so that when Juno is old enough you have someone that can help you when she starts turning on to livestock. I'm sure board members that are familiar with your area can recommend some good trainers. Samantha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 What Samantha says! You don't want any negative exposure at her age, and goats in particular can be challenging. Learning to tie and stay put is a good lesson for a pup, too, like she mentioned. Best wishes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommaLove Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Thanks to you both! You confirmed my gut feeling on this Juno will be going to Hawk's Landing (Mary Thompson) when she is older. In the meantime, we've been working on basic obedience and Juno is now solid with sit, down, heel and off - though iffy on her recall. We've done all training off-leash, so tying her out while I work in the goat yard will be a good lesson for her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Hi there Momma love and Juno; welcome to the Ontario community...I too let my young ones do chores, hang about but when I have to go somewhere with stock that are not appropriate, tie them up and/or put them up. ONce they start showing more of a thought of working them they don't go with me to do chores at all as I'm against having them sit and stare at stock while I work. Lots of good things happening in Ontario as far as trials and clinics but they are mainly east of Toronto. You might want to think about taking a camping vacation with the kids and go to Grass Creek Kingston sheep dog trials. http://kingstonsheepdogtrials.com/ I get down to see Mary every year or so, she's a top hand and will get you started on the right path Cynthia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommaLove Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Hi Cynthia, thanks for your input! We've decided to make the Kingston Sheepdog Trials part of our family vacation this year Perhaps we'll see you there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivehill Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I'm against having them sit and stare at stock while I work. Cynthia -- would you mind expounding on this part a bit? I also have a young pup whose purpose is to be trained for stock work. With the way our farm is set up for most of the year you can pretty much see stock no matter where you are. Our pup is only 3 months old, but is already showing interest in the stock. During his free time he will stop to lay outside the fence and stare and a couple of nights ago when a laying hen escaped he took it upon himself to hold her to the fence. Normally I'd chalk any play with a chicken up to just puppy exuberance, but he was anything but exuberant. He was very purposeful and quiet. He stayed back several feet and as she walked along the fence he'd trot out around in an arc to get in front of her before she got to the corner of the fence and then lay down and stare. She'd turn around and begin walking the other way and he'd wait until she got almost to the opposite corner and then trot around to the other side, lay down and stare. He never got close enough to make her run or chased, just did the half arc back and forth holding her against that one side of the outside of their chicken run until my husband went over and got her. I didn't ask him to do it and wouldn't ask him to do it again, but I wonder to what extent something like that (he was outside for free time and just happened to be the first to notice the hen out) and laying to watch the stock is bad for him at this stage. I mean barring any bad experience that could make him reluctant, of course. ETA: I'm also wondering if they become interested like him at 3 months and you don't want them staring at stock or things like this, what do you do with them for the next 3,6, 9 months until they're ready to get started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 ETA: I'm also wondering if they become interested like him at 3 months and you don't want them staring at stock or things like this, what do you do with them for the next 3,6, 9 months until they're ready to get started? You let them be puppies, doing and learning puppy things, like manners, hanging with you, a recall, and all those "normal" dog things. And then you can expose the pup to the livestock every now and then just to see what the interest is and the response, but making sure to not overface her with someone that might frighten her. It's just not considered good to have a dog lie and watch for anything but limited times. In their mind, they will be working and, if so, they may be developing bad habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivehill Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 You let them be puppies, doing and learning puppy things, like manners, hanging with you, a recall, and all those "normal" dog things. Yes, sorry, I guess that sounded like a silly question. Obviously all those normal things that would be happening anyway. What I meant was, for those that live on farms, what do you do prevent the dog from seeing stock -- I guess, my question would be especially for those that live on farms where stock is generally within eye shot. Do you only take them out on lead for very limited times? I'm just having a hard time imagining how to prevent him from seeing stock for the next six or nine months while still getting plenty of exercise and stimulation. We live rurally, there are no dog parks, no pet stores, no big box stores. I can't imagine the poor thing not being able to run around and play outside for most of his adolescence. Just wondering how other farm owners handle that... And then you can expose the pup to the livestock every now and then just to see what the interest is and the response, but making sure to not overface her with someone that might frighten her. It's just not considered good to have a dog lie and watch for anything but limited times. In their mind, they will be working and, if so, they may be developing bad habits. Thanks. So at what point does it become working in their mind and not just stopping to observe? When they stare for 30 seconds, a minute, five minutes, ten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I don't stop them from seeing stock, in fact there are chickens and sheep with in eye shot most of the time. What I don't want is them just staring, not calling off, not playing with the other dogs, not engaging with me. So generally the reason I stop taking them with me for chores is because I forget a tie out and than they get in trouble and I have to catch them, without being angry <BG> So if they start walking up on sheep in the training arena near the house, no problem, that'll do, good practice; If they sneak away to stare at sheep for several minutes, my fault, back on a long line to hang out with me. You don't want to create a sticky dog by letting it sit and stare for more than say, 30 sec, 1 min...this is not in stone, just a thought. Working a single chicken is fine, provided there was no harm done to the creature. I can't let my 2 PN dogs out on their own right now as they want to feather pluck my meat hens that are ranging near the house. Bad habit, bad owner. The questions are all great and this is an excellent exchange! Cynthia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivehill Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Thanks Cynthia! That all makes perfect sense and sounds very doable here. I kept hearing "don't let them stare at stock" in various places and was starting to panic a bit... there's stock everywhere here! As an aside, this being our first BC, I never realized they would show that instinct so young. It's really neat to watch that little flicker here and flicker there and then it grows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I don't give them Heck for staring at livestock, but i do nip it in the bud...that'll do, lets go do something else...go potty, go for a walk etc.. I don't want to discourage interest in livestock, but i want them to work with me C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Just what Cynthia said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Juno is a doll! Oh, my gosh, that FACE! I'll third what Cynthia said. It's not "looking" at livestock that's the problem, it's if the pup starts to fixate on them. They can look at, see and get used to all the farm critters, no problem. I personally prefer my pups to get used to doing chores, hanging out, and seeing things. That's how they learn that being around livestock is not always event. In arena trialing especially, I've seen dogs who only ever see sheep when it's time to work/train, so they get overly wound-up every time they lay eyes on them. I believe hanging out, waiting around, and doing chores balances that. So, just like Cynthia said, let her tag along and learn stuff, but if she starts to fixate on sheep or chickens or whatever, and stops listening and "locks up," then it's time to break her focus with a call to go do something else. As she gets older, she might need to drag a long line a bit, too. But I'm all for letting a puppy learn about his world! Just don't let any fixations set in. Enjoy that little rascal, and don't be shy about sharing more cute photos! ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Olivehill, My entire dog yard is surrounded by sheep pastures, and the chickens share the yard with the dogs. As others have said, it's the fixating to the exclusion of all else that's the problem. I also don't allow "fence working;" that is, chasing along the fence line to get the stock to move or somehow react. My youngster (now 10 months) will sometimes charge at the fence if the sheep are near it to get a reaction out of them, and that gets corrected. But generally she is well entertained by/with the other dogs and so doesn't really pay the livestock much attention, unless I come out to feed. So no need to prevent your pup from being in the yard where it can see stock, as long as it's not doing inappropriate things about the stock from his side of the fence. Mine also likes to make chickens run and so she's been corrected for that plenty. She doesn't chase them--just likes to run through the middle of them and send them squawking and flapping. But still, it's not nice so she gets in trouble for it. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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