roscoe11 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Hey I am looking for advice from experienced handlers that have seen lots of dogs develop. I have a 5-day trial with a two-year-old border collie from a rescue. I am looking for a pet that I might be able to do agility or disc dog with. This two-year-old pup is great in every way. He is friendly out going and does not seem to be skittish in any situations. As a matter of fact there is a thunder storm raging over head and he shows no signs at all of it bothering him. The concern I have with him is that it seems like it will be hard to motivate him for training. He will chase a ball or a Frisbee in the backyard but gets board of it quickly, but since I have had him I have been able to stretch this time out some. He is not overly interested in food either. If I take him to the park he looses interest in the ball or a Frisbee altogether and the food becomes low on his priority list. So I guess the question is, do you think that his toy or prey drive will continue to develop as he gets older and as he becomes more comfortable with his environment? Can I get him more interested in a ball then other dogs and squirrels? Right now when we go to a park (even one with no other dogs) I could not let him off the leash. Not even close! I think this dog would never be very reliable off leash much less at an agility or Frisbee competition I certainly do not want a high energy dog that I have no way to exercise Thanks for all your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 In my opinion, this is the most important part of your post right here: This two-year-old pup is great in every way. He is friendly out going and does not seem to be skittish in any situations. As a matter of fact there is a thunder storm raging over head and he shows no signs at all of it bothering him. If you luck into a dog with a great temperament, no storm/noise phobia and the added bonus of being interested in balls and frisbee already, he sounds like a gem. Your doubts about sustained interest in toys and focus on training? That's all stuff that just takes time, and most border collies excel in those areas, anyway. Don't expect so much from him in the beginning, it can take time for them to settle in and adjust to new people and surroundings. You may not see the focus or drive you want right now, within 5 days, but if you see an otherwise great dog, who shows glimpses of what he may be down the road, then that'd be my answer right there. I hope it works out for you both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 There are a lot of ways to build both toy and food motivation. The fact that you do have some toy motivation to work with his a huge plus. Of course no dog is a guarantee, but having that to start with is an excellent sign. Dean had zero toy motivation when we adopted him and now that is his primary motivator. And Speedy had little food motivation, but he learned it through clicker training. It can be done. I will say that I never did build any toy drive in Maddie, but she had none at all to begin with. She was extremely food motivated and we made that work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I've gotten three adult dogs now. None of them were really interested in a toy before I got them. Only one of them had ever played with a toy. They all turned into toy fanatics. FWIW, most dogs do not come with perfect focus in multiple environments. That takes time to build and develop. The environments that you are describing would be distracting to most dogs with little to no training. Right now when we go to a park (even one with no other dogs) I could not let him off the leash. Not even close! I think this dog would never be very reliable off leash much less at an agility or Frisbee competition I would never, ever, ever consider a dog that I've had for a couple days to be reliable off leash. Just doesn't happen. I usually expect to keep new dogs in a controlled environment or on a long line for several months. You have a new dog. In a new environment. That you've had no time to buld a real relationship with. Everything you're describing is normal, IMO. If you see several characteristics that you do like in him (and he sounds like a nice one!), then I'd take him. The rest usually comes with time and training. If you want to build drive for a toy, then don't play until he's bored. Take him out, make it the most exciting thing ever, throw it once or twice, then stop when he's realy into the game. This may only be a minute for now - that's fine. just quit when he's still really into it and it will build his desire for the next time you bring it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I would never, ever, ever consider a dog that I've had for a couple days to be reliable off leash. Just doesn't happen. I usually expect to keep new dogs in a controlled environment or on a long line for several months. You have a new dog. In a new environment. That you've had no time to buld a real relationship with. Everything you're describing is normal, IMO. If you see several characteristics that you do like in him (and he sounds like a nice one!), then I'd take him. The rest usually comes with time and training. If you want to build drive for a toy, then don't play until he's bored. Take him out, make it the most exciting thing ever, throw it once or twice, then stop when he's realy into the game. This may only be a minute for now - that's fine. just quit when he's still really into it and it will build his desire for the next time you bring it out Yes, this. All this! I forgot to touch on the reliable off leash stuff, but forgot. What Maralynn posted is spot on, though. It's WAY to soon to even think about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe11 Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 If you want to build drive for a toy, then don't play until he's bored. Take him out, make it the most exciting thing ever, throw it once or twice, then stop when he's realy into the game. This may only be a minute for now - that's fine. just quit when he's still really into it and it will build his desire for the next time you bring it out That is what I have been doing. I have 2 Frisbees, we go out 2 or 3 times a day and play a minute are two. I put the Frisbees up before he gets board. I have trained dogs before I just have never tried to train a dog that did not have a strong motivation towards a toy are food. The only rescue I have had was a beagle. He had the most amazing food drive from the instant he walk through the door. This lackadaisical attitude for a toy or food is baffling. Thanks I will keep working with him he really is a good dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I usually expect to keep new dogs in a controlled environment or on a long line for several months. I think it depends on the dog. I've had dogs that graduated to off-leash very quickly - within days. Usually, these are the super toy-focused and/or very biddable dogs, though. Most of our off-leash time is still within a fenced area, though, so maybe that doesn't count. But, when we are at the beach, there's no fence and I can tell pretty quickly if a dog will be able to graduate to off-leash, usually within the first few visits. Then, I've had other dogs that never graduated to off-leash the entire time that I had them. Those tend to be the non-border collies, and non-toy focused dogs, IME. BUT, some dogs take longer to show you their "true" dog and 5 days would not be enough time, IMO. I always keep foster dogs a minimum of 2 weeks before considering putting them up for adoption because I think for most dogs, a minimum of two weeks is needed to get a good feel for the dog and the type of home that will work best for it. Also, adopters are given a 30-day "trial" period, though that's not exactly what we call it. But, if their dog is not working out for any reason within 30 days of adoption, we will refund them their adoption fee (and take the dog back, obviously). How long was the dog in the rescue? I would talk to the rescue to see what their evaluation of him is. Hopefully, they kept him long enough to get a good idea about his potential for sports. As far as building toy drive and motivation, that would not be so much a concern to me. I think there are plenty of ways to do that. I'd be more concerned about the dog's potential to be trusted off leash. Of course, there are ways to work on that, too. But, IMO, there are some dogs that just are runners and will exploit the opportunity to run no matter what. If you want to build drive for a toy, then don't play until he's bored. Take him out, make it the most exciting thing ever, throw it once or twice, then stop when he's realy into the game. This may only be a minute for now - that's fine. just quit when he's still really into it and it will build his desire for the next time you bring it out ^^ Yes, yes, I agree with this. Also, try different toys. You may not have found the toy that trips his fancy, yet. Some dogs are toy generalists, but many have very specific toys that they like and will play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 How excited are you while playing? You need to convince him that it is the. coolest. thing. ever. It was real WORK getting Kipp interested in a toy. But once it clicked, boy did it click! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 That is what I have been doing. I have 2 Frisbees, we go out 2 or 3 times a day and play a minute are two. I put the Frisbees up before he gets board. I have trained dogs before I just have never tried to train a dog that did not have a strong motivation towards a toy are food. The only rescue I have had was a beagle. He had the most amazing food drive from the instant he walk through the door. This lackadaisical attitude for a toy or food is baffling. Thanks I will keep working with him he really is a good dog. Your expectations for his attitude seem really high. When we brought Ladybug home she was very quiet for some time (a week or more) and she'd only been in rescue (the local SPCA) for about a week. She wouldn't play, barely ate -in fact, she didn't even pee for nearly 24 hours. And she lives and breathes for fetch and Frisbee. She needed lots of quiet reassurance. And it was a "squeaker" toy that woke her up. She loves squeakers. Scotty was even more reluctant as he was the second dog and didn't want to put a paw wrong before Ladybug gave him permission to breathe. They needed to work out their relationship as well. Plus, he'd never met a cat! As your pup gets used to new surroundings and to your expectations his personality will emerge. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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