MARISTELA Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 I would like to know from the trainers if you suggest using the stick on the training sessions with the beginners. I have already noticed that the using of a stick is more british than american. I have also noticed that my dog obeys me much more when I have a stick on my hand. Thanks for the advice. Maristela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Glen Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 Actually, I believe the Brits use a crook more than a stick. From what I understood, after he came to the States, Alasdair is the one who marketed the stick for handlers. So you end up seeing alot more North Americans with sticks than Brits. You can use a feed bag too. It's the kinder gentler method if you prefer. You just roll it up and use it to make noise against your leg. Jenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Hey Jenny, Did Scott start recommending the feed bag after teaching a clinic in Colorado? Cause I brought it to his clinic last fall, and he laughed at me at first (kindly, jokingly) and by the end of the weekend, he was borrowing it to work with other dogs Cheers, Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 After what happened to me this weekend, me thinks a two by four.... Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Glen Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Laura, He's been using the feed bag for years. I don't know why he laughed, but he usually uses it on puppies. Jenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Glen Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I saw a funny one once. Alasdair was doing a clinic and the owner of this dog said the only thing that makes her dog give ground was a basketball. Of course, you know there was no way Alasdair was going to agree with that but by the end of the lesson, she had showed him that it worked on her dog (I'm not saying that he agreed it was the ONLY thing that worked)and he was tossing it at the dog too. It really did work on this dog and Alasdair has incredible aim so he coult "hit the mark". Jenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Maybe he was breaking the ice...Taz and I went first :eek: Taz was about 13 months old at the time, so still kinda puppyish, and I made a point to tell him that everything had to be pretty gentle (a previous trainer once threw a leash with a heavy metal clip at my other dog in an attempt to get her to widen out--the clip hit her in the face and she went into an immediate seizure right there on the field, so I'm now kind of a freak about kinder, gentler training--and Scott was really great that way ). Cheers, Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 I generally eschew sticks, bags, rattle paddles, etc. I have to admit basketballs have never crossed my mind, but a 2X4 certainly would have come in handy a time or two. The basic underlying thing that you're trying to accomplish with any of these tools is to push the dog out, and I generally don't like to push dogs out. I'd rather have a dog running tight and in contact than wide and out of contact, and I'm not good enough to figure out when I need to stop pushing a dog out before breaking contact. Based on what I've seen on the trial field, neither are most of us mortals. If you let your dog's natural feel for sheep develop, working on pace and restraint, you won't need the gizmos. It's a slower process, but one that I think results in a better dog in the end. At least in the kind of dog that I like -- one that leaves my feet of a 500-yard outrun in contact with his sheep, not in contact with the fence line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 We (my trainer and I) have used a stick with Jackson because he is hard headed! It is used way less now than in the beginning. It helped mainly to get his attention when he was zoning on the sheep. However, using the command "there" at the same time, has taught him that when he hears "there" he knows something else is going to go on and it has been very effective. This has been mainly in the smaller pen training. Out in the big field it is really of no use. But knowing the "there" command he automaticaly prepares his mind for a new command. Or sometimes I will use it just to bring his mind back to a calmer state as he is waiting in the back of his mind to see what new thing will be given. But it was the stick that helped with him. If he was a softer dog, the stick would not have had as good effect. As I saw for myself with a soft dog. It just freaked the pup out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Hmmmm...I generally use the stick only to affect the livestock, not the dog. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 All my sheep duck if they come to close to my stick. My dogs would probably freak if they saw a rolled up bag.... Whatever works. I agree with Bill about liking my dogs being a bit tight and feeling sheep, instead it going way out cause that is what is was trained to do. I was working with a friend a while back who asked why I didn't push my dog out when he was tight. I said it was his job to realize he was tight. She asked what if we came across flighty sheep that would be gone the minute he came in tight, I commented that he would suffer the consequence of his actions so there his lesson would be. I think a dog made to give ground (not so much in the very beginning when things are moving to fast for the little nippers) doesn't get to feel his sheep as nicely as a dog allowed to feel or "learn" to feel sheep on his own. I also find that I get quickly addicted to my tool of the day so, sometimes I use something I have handy, sometimes I don't. But a stick works wonders on sheep that run to you! I work as quietly as I can make myself work. My dogs are much happier that way. The dog that taught me that would match my voice with his actions, so....if I got loud, he got pushy, still does. He keeps me thinking all the time on how to explain what I want with no emotions, unless they match what I want. NO YELLING or HOPPING around, just correct information. Way hard for me to remember when things are going hay wire Now my question.... Do you use the dogs name as a tool? I watched Jack K. use my dogs name to break his eye, correct his thoughts, and pull him out of tight spots (all in the tone) Then I come home and my best trainer buddy, tells me to stop using his name as she thinks the name is only an "in" command. Jack never corrected my dog with anything other than his name?.this happens to be the dog that really works to match your emotions. Thoughts? I'm having sheep withdrawals cause I've been in my new place for over a month and my sheep are stuck in MO...coming home soon.....we hope! What I have learned while being sheepless is, you can actually do other things without dogs on the weekend and not die of sheep withdrawals! Family is getting tired of me quickly but hubby is enjoying the company! Dogs have learned to swim on a whim, play with empty milk jugs and generally the same lesson that I have, we don?t need sheep to smile?.they?re just the icing on our wonderful cake! Sheepless in AR Kristen Charleston, AR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Kristen, I use the dog's name as both a call in and an attention getter. I don't really need a call in with Kat, but if I need to use one on Twist (say, for example, if she's getting wide flanking on the shed), I say her name rapidly several times, and with a relatively high pitch (Twist, Twist, Twist). With Kat I am more likely to need to get her attention and get her to refocus, in which case calling her name once, sharply (not in a mean tone, but in a tone that means "listen!") works wonders. This is the context in which Jack K. uses the name I believe. So your training buddy is in part right, as I do use the name as an "in" command, but I say it differently than I do when I mean it as an attention-getting command. In the latter context, it's like saying "Hey!" (which I also use) but substituting the dog's name for the word "hey." I believe Jack K. would use either (hey or the dog's name) as what you say isn't as important as your timing in saying it. Just my opinion of course. As for the stick, I find it great for self-protection when dealing with cattle, and good for stopping sheep that are trying to run past you (e.g., in the shedding ring or when I'm trying to catch a single to medicate or whatever). I don't wave it at the dogs in general because if I am waving it at livestock for whatever reason I don't want the dog responding to the stick instead of to what I am saying (or not saying). That said, if I am training or just working around the farm I rarely even carry a stick, the exception being when I am dealing with cattle (but even then, if getting a stick requires a long walk to somewhere I will just get by without it). There's something to be said for not relying on any sort of crutch. And that's just my opinion too. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Julie, Just as I thought, sometimes it nice to hear others opinions, always open for more info. I've been known to grab whatevers handy if I need a tool. I try to remember to put on a hat before I go outside, as they work great on sheep or dogs, but usually I'm out in whatever I had on the moment I decided to go work, and I don't wear hats or carry sticks around the farm or house! I'm lucky if I remeber all the stuff I need to do the job I started out the door for! Now that I live on such a private place I bet my shirt will come in handy! Only if I remeber to wear the proper undergarmets! Death to ticks Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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