Dixie_Girl Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Jackson is 14 mos. old. He has had 1 training session on sheep in a round pen. When I play throw the toy in the house with him, he has got to the point where he will just go where he thinks I will throw it. So I started telling him, "watch it" and he will come back in view of the toy. But he would still be quite a ways off. So I started telling him, "walk up" and he will real slow advance till I tell him good boy then I throw the toy, etc. My question is this, am I going to screw up his herding by doing this? I realized that "walk up" is a herding command, so will he just understand the command ala carte, so to speak, or will he be totally confused when he is given the command in relation to sheep? Or am I being a worry wort? I have only done this two days,,,,,,,I will cease and disist immediately....or is it too late? Grrrrr.....so so much to learn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 I can't tell you anything with certainty but I believe that many folks would discourage anything that resembles a "dry run" or using working commands without stock present to actually work on. That said, there are some commands that apply to stock work and to other circumstances (like "lie down" or "here") so, if the command is appropriate to the situation, is there anything "wrong" with it? I'm sure folks with real experience will chime in on this and give you good information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie etc Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Originally posted by Dixie_Girl:So I started telling him, "walk up" and he will real slow advance till I tell him good boy then I throw the toy, etc. My question is this, am I going to screw up his herding by doing this? I don't think it's a good idea, because he is focussing on where you are and "walking up" in relation to your body position. When you use "walk up" in herding later, it will be in relation to the stock, and you won't want your dog looking at you then. How about using "step" or "step up" to have him creep up closer to you before you throw the toy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 I use "closer" in that context. I learned my lesson on dry work when I lived in town and got too eager. I taught Ben to walk up, flank, and numerous other commands on a Frisbee when we were only seeing sheep about every six months or so. I can't blame his subsequent confusion entirely on his dry work but it sure has been a pain getting him to understand that "Walk up" doesn't mean come towards me. And flanks don't mean circle blindly and then (!!) crash into the sheep when you buzz them. He has, however, the most beautiful "look back" which I'm sure will be thrilling to see when we get into our first double lift trial. Ahem. Can Border collies live to be 20 years old? Sue is right, it's best to work on things like lying down instantly (it may or may not translate to stock at first but at least it will be in his vocabulary). Recall is another one to work on. You can work on anything that deepens your sense of teamwork - it won't harm his stock work to learn silly tricks like weaving around you, going out to a target on command, even fetching games as long as you keep his brain engaged and don't let it turn mindless. Teach him to find objects in the house or yard on command. You don't have to work on stock to build his confidence and develop a working vocabulary with him. Whatever you do to work on that, it will translate to stock eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Rebecca - I'm not worried that the dogs won't live long enough to "get it" but I'm fairly convinced that I won't live long enough to "get it"! I think there are many good things you can do with a dog to increase vocabulary and confidence, as Rebecca points out. You do need to "think forward" when you train so that what you accomplish will contribute to your ultimate goals and that you can build on, and not be something that has to be "unlearned" later. I think these ideas are something you can see in practice with stock in the Derek Scrimgeour videos, where he shows what he does with pups and young dogs in light of where he is "going" with them in future training, so that every step now is a foundation for a future step forward in training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted February 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Ok yeah, all said makes sense. We have been doing the "find it" for quite a while, he really enjoys it when he finds what we have hidden! And so far he is better at finding than we are at hiding! Also, the part of him thinking walk up is related to ME is something I should have realized! Grrrr..Okay so now I will tell him closer. He already knows when I say I can't reach it, to drop the toy closer to me. Even I see on his face, "jeeze, its right there, just get it and throw it"!! He has known lie down, here, and stay for a long while. Lie down at a distance was hardest,,,,he always wanted to come to me first,,,but now he knows to just lie down! Thanks all,,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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