down

[bobh]

My 12month old is going to see sheep . he has had 4 lessons . he is very keen. but will not lie down. I must block him and get his attention and some times he lies down. He is on along line iwrap it around his waist and as we walk up to the sheep he will lie down but once I let him go it takes along time to get him to lie down. How can I improve his down?

 

Thanks Bob H

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Do you let him back to work immediately when he responds?

 

Also, have you tried asking for a little hesitation at first, then a bit longer stop, then a bit longer, and so on until he's willing to give all the way and lie down completely? Other than reaching for the two-by-four, that's the best approach I've seen with these darn loose eyed free flanking dogs of mine. Let me change that - it's much better than the two by four.

 

Of course make sure the sheep are not flying away to the four corners when you are asking for this. Make it as easy as possible for him to give you the right answer. Some people say bring the sheep up to the fence to make it REALLY easy, but I don't like to teach the sheep that the fence is a good place to be. It might be different with light or hair sheep but I have to be careful to keep my woolies humble.

[bobh]

Rebecca, as soon as he lies down I let him go back to working.

We are in a small round pen

as we walk up to the sheep he is on a lead wraped around his wast so he can not just take off at the sheep. I have controll. As we walk up together I will ask for a down if he downs fast ilet him lose to work. I let him work a few min. then i ask for a down, he usualy contiues to circel the sheep until I block him.Then he may stop but he usualy tries to go round to the sheep!

I know he needs more time on sheep but at the moment.he has only been on sheep 4 times in 2 monthsI With this type of exsperence am I asking to much from my dog To LIE DOWN.

Thanks Bob H

[Keegan's Mom]

I actually got a good lie down outside of the round pen. We started with a solid lie down with no distractions then I would ask for when we were playing ball, etc...then he'd get the ball as a reward for lying down. I asked for it then asked him to walk up then lie down again. We made a game of it outside of the round pen then it got a lot easier in the round pen.

 

How is his lie down when not working sheep? I don't have a solid lie down around sheep, but he eventually does it and quicker than he used to.

 

Make him successful. I agree with Becca's statement above about the hesitation, then a little longer and so on...this has worked for me.

 

Good luck.

[bobh]

Thanks Keegans mom, I have a down from 30 feet No distractions. i have a down with other dogs around but not runing. Do you feel Ishould or should not try to work sheep with a poor down ? i am going out right now to up the distractions with a down >Thanks

 

bobh

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I didn't realize you'd only been on sheep 4 times with this dog. I wouldn't even be thinking of a down at this point. He'd have a light line on - his collar, not waist, so I could catch him. If the pen is small enough there shouldn't be issues about control, unless he's really wild.

 

Are you trying to lie him down to stop the action? Your job is to keep the pressure light on him so he can learn to work quietly. Let him go and turn the heads back to you, then start doing figure eights and squarey right turns. Don't think in terms of blocking him, think in terms of using the sheep to cue him that he needs to turn. Turn away from his pressure (Jack Knox used to say "follow his tail") so he'll lose the sheep if he doesn't pay attention to you. If you keep it quiet, he'll gradually start widening out on his own as he tries to anticipate where he needs to be to get to balance.

 

A free flanking dog needs to find where balance is on his own even more than a dog with good balance. This walking around approach helps such a dog feel where that is, with less pressure. It's not that he can't feel where balance is, it's that he prefers to move - more fun, you know?

 

When his brain is in gear, you should be able to stop briefly - and he will too. Immediately move again. Do it again until he's comfortable stopping and looks relaxed (you've absolutely got to have quiet sheep for this, by the way). DO NOT step into him, and put away the temptation to use a command. I would end this session after you've done this a few times. Make sure the sheep are quiet, talk quietly to him, keep his attention on you, and step on the line. Calmly leave. Next time, if he's ready, watch to see whether he'll give you a bit more. Progress as HIS pace up to a full down. Obedience isn't important at this stage - it's whether he's responding to the pressure from the sheep and to your presence.

 

If he's too wired to keep things calm, you can either put him up for a bit and see whether further maturity helps (twelve months is one of the ages you often DO have to take a few weeks' break), or you can go out and sit quietly with the stock for a couple hours every day, for, well, about three or four weeks. Don't do this if he's got a strong eye or comes from strong eyed dogs.

 

The other thing you can do is tether him to you for a couple hours every day to help him develop a better awareness of you as a leader. Don't use that belly rope - just a simple leash clipped to his collar and attached to your belt, then pretty much ignore HIM while you walk around. This is an attitude adjustment worse than being hit constant with a two-by-four, so don't do this if he's a soft dog. It doesn't seem like much but it will force a dog to acknowlege you and get VERY sensitive to your pressure. Then when he thinks you are a god, go back to the sheep.

 

Good luck - hope this helps!

[bobh]

Rebecca , I do use a light line the line is to his collar then around his waist once ilet the roap go it falls from his waist.

 

Thanks for the info!!

BobH

[laurie etc]

Bob - 4 lessons in a couple of months? That's like taking a kid to Disneyworld and telling him he has to walk and hold your hand the whole time! I would not be expecting a complete stopping lie down at this point from a keen dog, a hesitation is about all you can ask for right now, and be glad if you get it. If I had a dog that had a reliable down on sheep in a round pen after only 4 tries, I'd think the dog wasn't too keen. If he is not being brutal to the sheep, I would see about moving to a slightly larger area (leaving a leash or line attached for ease of catching him later)where you can do what Rebecca suggested and start to wear around so that he gets the idea of balancing "on the move", with occasional hesitations, which will work themselves into downs once the excitement of being there lessens.

[Keegan's Mom]

I totally agree. Keegan hasn't seen much of sheep either, but we didn't have a solid lie down until near the end of our lessons with Steve. He has a good lie down now; however, sometimes it takes a couple times giving the command because it is still so new. I might mention that Keegan is 3 now...when he was 2 I could ask way too much of him, but in six months he matured alot and now I can't ask enough of him (well, I'm sure I could...but he is really into it now).

 

Good luck and keep us posted.