The Good Shepherd Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 I have been giving this a lot of thought. I will be ready for a strictly herding-bred (For lack of better word)Border Collie in another year or so. Would the working breeders even consider selling a puppy or older dog to a novice person with no herding titles to her name (so far ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 For a number of the people I know (and would recommend) a lack of "herding titles" would be a plus. "Herding titles" are pretty meaningless or antithetical to most serious working dog breeders. If you have livestock experience and are dedicated (and have a plan) to make it work, I think there are lots of folks who would consider you. If you don't have livestock experience and/or don't have a plan to make it work, that might be an issue with some folks who don't want to see their dogs' progeny going to homes where "success" (working success, not competition success) would be more chancy. Now, if I were a breeder and with my frame of mind, and I felt your goal was a dog that you could compete with to gain "herding titles", then I wouldn't consider you. If your goal was a dog to work on the farm and to maybe trial in USBCHA-style trials, that would be fine. There are a number of breeders that I think would agree with me, and there are those who feel that as long as the dog has a suitable home/situation, okay with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 Soem 'breeders' even 'big hats' will sell to anyone with cash, no questions asked. Others ask more questions and have some 'requirements'. To any working breeder, titles are not important whether you have them or if any of your dogs have them. To non working breeders, titles can be important. Guess my point is there are all sorts of 'breeders'. Depends on who you talk to as to the 'breeder's expectations. Why changing breeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted December 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 Hi Pam - Happy Holidays "Why change breeds" - The only "working" GSD is my Duke( He is going on 5), the other 2 ( 9 and 7) are retired due to health.Cynder is going on 9, Spyder is going to be 10 next month. "El Bandito" is the posterchild for a "Barbie Collie" BUT he does like to sample manure I would really really like to be able to step in the arena one of these days with a dog that: 1 - has herding (not Tending) instinct 2 - that does not want to eat the sheep or goats 3 - that wants to work as a team Help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 Wow! Is Cynder actually 9? Gusto must be getting older too! Good reasons for wanting a BC. BTW I am going to try to be out that way after the first of the year if I can clear the schedule and weather permitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted December 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 Pam let me know when you are going to be down here!!!!!!!!!!! This is the best news I have heard in a long time You MUST come to down to my place, heck, I will throw a BBQ with my herding group, maybe lessons, maybe a mini clinic - the possibilities are endles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 In short, yes there are "working breeders" that would sell you a pup. But, not all and there will be varying reasons, to the point of each breeder that declines you may have a unique reason as why they will not sell you a pup. Be honest with the breeder, there are some that will help you select the best pup for you or will steer you toward another breeders litter that may have the best pup for you. Don't be afraid to aim high. I was at a clinic 2 1/2 years ago with Jake, the other participants had never run USBCHA nor have their own farm, they could not beleive that we would be able to purchase a dog like Jake, they were told that they would be declined. My advice, just call and ask, it's also easier when you travel the same circles. Around here the best way to get lined up with a good pup is to come out and try with what you have at the novice level or by attending fun days and clinics. I know of a few breeders/trainers that will take you under their wing and help you along so long as they feel you are trying and really want to succeed in their circle. The gal that took high point novice in our club last year had her dog given to her, she showed up at a fun day with a mini aussie, follow up with some private lessons and when she came to the realization that her aussie was not going to be competitive at the events that she wanted to attend the gift of a male border collie was presented. He wasn't top notch, a wash out from an open handler, but he was a starting point. She now has a super nice female pup that she purchased last spring and will be running this year, at the end of this past season someone approached her about buying that male to use in a feed lot, she sold him and the circle of life continues. Deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted December 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 Thanks Debbie I guees I should explain better. I am not lookig for a "Title" only dog. I would love to have a BC I can take out my back 40 when I feed my small "herd (as Hubby calls it), or to sort when our group has lessons, in short, to have a stockdog that wants to do work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 Sound like the best reasons of all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted December 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 Thanks Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 I would love to have a BC I can take out my back 40 when I feed my small "herd (as Hubby calls it), or to sort when our group has lessons, in short, to have a stockdog that wants to do work This sounds like a nice dog....would be nice if he was older and more expirenced...but heck his price is equal to less then 60 days of training, the dog and potential fun are free... Nursery Aged Dog For Sale A year November 20th, this youngster is started on sheep. He has a natural cast, lots of feel & is very forward. Soft off sheep, resilient on sheep. He is doing small outruns, stopping learning his flanks and coming off sheep. He has been neutered. more info: http://kensmuir.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2865&sid=c9f371983c60f51654ecea6483be749a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denice Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 I love training so I start several pups a year, mostly my own breeding. I can't keep them all if I want to continue to train so when I feel they are ready I sell them. I look for good homes for them, someone who will be committed to the dog and the 'fit'. Yes the experience of the handler makes a difference but it is because each dog is different and will suit different people. Some are more of a handful and challenging and would take advantage of a novice handler. Other young dogs are very natural and seem to do it all reasonably well from day 1. My last litter, those dogs are now 16 mo old, one female is excellent with novice folks, She allows them time to think, doesn't make a mess and wants to please so she tries really hard for them. She works for anyone and does it well. I have handed her to many novice folks here for clinics so they can get a feel of a nice dog and what is supposed to be happening. Echo would be a great dog for a novice person but has plenty talent to take them a long way. Her brother is another story, he is not as settled and can have a bit of grip and loose his head for a minute. He simply needs someone to step in, fix the situation with him and allow him to get back to work. He would make things difficult for a novice person. I think a good breeder or someone with a dog for sale who is interested in getting the dog in a good situation takes many things into consideration. Mostly I want the person and the dog to be happy, money is down the list. I often reduce my asking price if I think the home could be perfect and I will turn folks down willing to pay my price if I do not think it will work. There are folks out there that will sell anything to anyone for the right price and make it all sound great knowing just what to say so you need to be careful when looking. I just sold a 3 yr old trained dog to woman with a small flock and she calls me about every 3 weeks to tell me she is thrilled - that's what I want for my dogs and the person. Denice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Pam, we could do a BBQ here too. Not too far from NM. hsnrs@powerc.net. Hope to see you in 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 I just had to add that if you have sheep, land and a desire, I don't see why any "good" breeder wouldn't sell you a dog. Heck even if you didn't have sheep and land but were dedicated to your dog, weren't going to reg. ACK and maybe sign a nonbreeding contract....you sound like a perfect owner. I don't understand why someone wouldn't sell you a nice working dog. We all have to start somewhere and like it's preached here on these boards, don't buy an ACK dog, if you have to buy please buy from working lines....What....people preach but won't step up? Nah....I'm sure you'll find a nice dog when you are ready! Now if you're looking for a dog with some training instead of a puppy, that's gonna take you looking and doing your homework but same as above, livestock, need for a dog, why wouldn't someone sell you a dog with training on it? I also happen to know of a nice male for sale. He's got quite a bit of training, think he's running open but still young. Medium rough coat with lots of white. Quite the lover boy and good with other dogs that I've seen. If you're interested pm me. Good luck on your adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon Puppy Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Claudia, You have a herding group in Albuquerque? I am desperately trying to find some place to train my dogs and me. Any suggestions? I have contacted free to be ranch, and hope to schedule some lessons, but I can only do that occasionally with the drive and whatnot, and I don't know how my dogs can learn herding without accessing sheep, or ducks, or something that moves and flocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Nice Group in NM. some great places to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon Puppy Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Nice Group in NM. some great places to work. That's what I hear, but I just need to find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hi Diana E-mailed you information Pam, I will see you shortly, take good care of Elsie HSNRS, you are invited to join us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I abused Elsie today. She might not survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 She lies! We dewormed pups today and some thought they were being abused LOL!!!! Actually good socialization/handling lessons. I think I saw Liz putting Elsie in her pocket before she left today. But she swears she likes bobblehead more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Dear Wouldbe Sheepdoggers, If I'm buying a dog I want to know why its owner is selling him. Often the reason is harmless: too many dogs, need the money, have a littermate he likes better, has thus and such flaw the owner doesn't want to live with. Sometimes the flaw is serious. There's an open dog for sale in the southeast for 5k that savages other dogs. That someone else has a problem with a dog doesn't mean you'll have the same problem - indeed I recently (and reluctantly) sold a nice pronovice dog with the hope that would be the case. Many and many dogs have done better for their new owner than their previous one. Novices will put more time and attention into their first real dog than open handlers will. Some unpromising young dogs have won open trials because their once-novice owners persisted when a more experienced handler would have swapped the dog out. If your desire is to run an open dog it is ALWAYS cheaper, quicker and smarter to buy one rather than rear one from a pup. Do the math: pup from top breeding: $700/feed and vet care until age 3: $3000/200 hours of training at 5$ an hour: $1000. These are conservative figures and don't include trial entries, travel and/or coaching/clinics. Most good sheepdogs are underpriced and often top handlers will sell to a novice and take a loss on a dog just to see it in a forever home. Donald McCaig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Thank you Mr. McCaig On a side note, I received Nobs Trial and Nobs Hope as a Christmas gift and was reading the entire weekend! Thank you for making my Christmas special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 She lies! We dewormed pups today and some thought they were being abused LOL!!!! Actually good socialization/handling lessons. I think I saw Liz putting Elsie in her pocket before she left today. But she swears she likes bobblehead more. Liz, you put Elsie back right now or I will send my Barbie dog Bandit up for you to train Pam, give her bobblehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Oh who is bobblehead Pam? I guess I should check before I open my big mouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 She is a smothish pup and Liz calls her bobblehead for some reason LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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