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Beginner Herder - Dog rushing at sheep


ness_bc
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Hi,

 

I posted this under a different topic in the general section but after advice I was given I figured I would rework the post and post it here.

 

I have one of those horrid ANKC BCs - which everybody pulls strips off - the fluffy show ones - but don't hold that against me pleaseeeeeee.....

 

Anyway that is beside the point we have attended 2 herding lessons thus far and I have a problem with my 4 year old BC rushing and barking at the sheep. I posted this problem under the general section because she exhibited the same behavior down on the beach today with a couple of kids in the water - totally not acceptable I realise BUT I am looking for constructive solutions as I would like to get this situation under control in both circumstances. Ness has had a 4 years of obedience training - including a novice title before having worked sheep so spends a good deal of time glued to me when she is unsure. Our herding instructors advice is for me to keep my mouth shut and just let her go. I have a a short 2 minute video which I am trying to get put onto the internet which shows the problem.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

Sally and Ness

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Which problem are working on?

 

Anyway, your dog sounds more like some of the collie-collies and other non-border collie herding breeds than most border collies. The barking will likely decrease over time on its own. If you try to correct a lower drive dog too much for that barking, you will just lessen the enthusiasm for stock. Just go have some fun with your dog at lessons. Don't have high expectations. You'll be pleasantly surprised eventually because you have not set impossible goals.

 

A friend of mine trains a lot of breeds that are not very motivated or show a tad of ability but have short attention spans. She will actually congratulate and praise a dog for splitting a small group rather than correct the dog. This is to gear up its interest level.

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Hey, I'm a rank novice so major grain of salt alert here! However, I do know that if the dog is unsure, trying to get control at this point will just short circuit things. Trust your trainer - if he or she is not concerned about the barking, rushing - don't worry about it yourself too much. As a novice, that's the biggest point I can share - trust your trainer and listen carefully - they see things in what looks like total chaos and will know when to step in. Many times a dog may be missing pieces of the "total package" that a working dog would be bred for - they can still proceed but it will take longer to shape things the way they should look.

 

I helped out at an Australian Shepherd clinic last fall and the instructor was really great. One of his most interesting points was that a lot of herding dogs still have a moderate amount of what's needed to get "herding titles" - but it takes years to train a non working bred dog to do what a working bred dog will do without prompting, the first time on sheep.

 

My point? Patience - if this is the dog you want to work with, be patient and follow the lead of your intructor. And I suspect if you get hooked on herding you'll be looking to those sheep stations for your next pup! :rolleyes:

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About the thing on the beach: Please, don't go thinking that because your dog barks at both livestock and children that your dog just wants to herd the children.

 

There is no way to be certain; however, there is an excellent chance that your dog is nervous and insecure and a little to a lot afraid of both children and livestock.

 

Be very cautious with the dog around children. At least in the U.S., people can behave ridiculously about nips from dogs. It doesn't make sense to risk your dog's life by not getting the situation well in hand. Since I don't have children, my preference with an older dog is not to socialize (and expose a child to a nip) and instead to just make the dog ignore children or keep the dog on a leash. Whatever it is you decide to do: do it.

 

One thing you might do is teach the dog to drop...not a drop on recall (which isn't particularly useful on livestock, especially with an obedience dog)but to drop wherever the dog is without a prior recall. This is useful on stock as well. For you and your dog, it probably won't be useful for sometime on livestock; it probably will be useful eventually. Also, that down at a distance could save your dog's life and is very easy to teach a border collie without calling it first.

 

Penny

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Hi,

 

Thanks for that. I guess I will just listen to what the instructor has to say. We are only doing herding for a bit of fun. She only does the rush and bark thing the first time in the pen, when she is worked up other than that she is able to settle. Of course she isn't going to be brilliant but we can both still enjoy the learning process.

 

I wasn't saying she was necessarily herding the children only that if I could work to solving both problems which I assumed were related then things would be better. Thankfully she doesn't nip in that situation so I don't have that to worry about and does come back.

 

Thanks anyway,

 

Sally and Ness

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Hi Sally - another fluffbutt owner here. You've been given some really good advice here. At this stage of training, it's your trainer's responsibility to take care of the sheep (which is my bottom line), so if your trainer says just let her go - then as the others have said - trust your trainer. Depending on the dog, it can sometimes help to give the dog a free run somewhere safe beforehand to 'get the p*** and vinegar out of her a bit' before you start - not too much though that the dog gets too tired.

 

We used to do this with my little fluffbutt - but now (almost a year of lessons and work later), she can control herself much better. Yesterday my trainer had us do an exercise of moving about 20 wethers through a circuit of yards. She said later she'd wondered whether she should have advised giving Kirra a run first - but happily, Kirra has progressed sufficiently far that she could settle down to work pretty well straight away. I was really pleased with the way she worked those woollies - even getting them into and through a drafting race with minimal problems.

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