Faster Weaves

[MrSnappy]

And then when they get old you can drop them one more height class, which is why Mr. Tweeders is now frolicking along at 10"

 

RDM

[storminthenight]

Yes its AKC, kari's permanent height card says she's 20.5", and she jumps 20".

We trained for about 8 months before entering our first trial, and when we started training she did jump at a lower jump height. But honestly Kari can jump heigher than 20", she's very lean/muscular/athletic, I don't think jump height is a problem. Out of our four border collies she is the fastest, she can run like a greyhound and has crazy speed, she's just not applying it to agility yet. She probably looks like a snail to you guys in that video, lol.

I hate to say it, but honestly getting Q's is important to me, or at least not consistently getting NQ'd. I'm in nursing school and dont have a huge amount of spare time or money, and any that I do get goes into training the dogs. I didn't start out expecting to earn titles or even do that well, but it is nice to see the progress we are making and the hard work and training pay off.

I think will we will do o.k. in Open, at least we did at the Blue Springs trial, but I know there is no way we are going to get any Q's in excellent if we dont speed up. I've also been thinking of registering her with UKC for agility, but not sure, any thoughts? If we did get our Open title, I was planning to train for a while before ever going into excellent, but maybe entering some UKC trials at the Novice level would be a good idea.

I know to you guys it may not look like she's having fun, but Kari's not a dog that ever gets super excited about things, she's very intense and has so many different expressions you have to learn to read. In the pictures I posted to me it says "happy/joy/fun" and after the run I can see she's smiling and strutting around like she's proud of herself. I don't want you to think she's not enjoying herself.

[PSmitty]

I don't think you need to jump her lower, but I understand where that advice is coming from. I just think that she's a baby dog and with experience and confidence, she'll speed up. And I'm talking about BOTH of you! Once you get some trials under your belt, get more training and practice in, you'll be able to relax and so will she. I speak from experience, though I still have a long way to go myself! I do agree with the advice above about not micro-managing, just getting out there and running and having fun. That's what practice/class is for, but remember to train the way you're going to trial though.

 

I felt like Open was a lot harder than Novice. To me, it was a bigger "jump" than going from Open to Excellent. So, that's my way of trying to prepare you for the possibility of Open Qs not coming readily. I learned to try to find something positive from each run, and move on.

 

Enough rambling, I really only meant to post in response to your UKC question. I don't know what UKC trials are like in your area, but here, they're very small courses, no room for speed, and they focus more on precision. How about NADAC or CPE? I really like NADAC. Around here the trials are fun, more laid back and relaxed. Might be another fun venue to try out.

[storminthenight]

You should have seen me at the first trial we entered, I was literally shaking. I was worried it would rub off on Kari, but thankfully it didn't seem to. I was much better at the Blue Springs trial, and I'm sure I will get better as we go to more trials.

I've only been to one UKC trial (I was the leash runner) the biggest differences for me were (the obvious) different equipment, the fact you could actually take your dog around the course on leash before running, and I was told the times are not as strict as AKC. Perhaps it was just that trial, but the courses seemed a comparable size to AKC.

I have heard good things about NADAC, I'll probably look into AKC and NADAC more next year though. After the October trial I'm going to get through nursing school and start agility back up next year, lol.

I did notice that the Open courses were very similar to the excellent, they seemed to just take a few bits of equipment out and make the course a bit easier, but some of the elements were the same.

[gcv-border]

I think you have to do what is best for your dog and you - regardless of whether it is more control in the beginning and transitioning to speed as they gain confidence -- or as in my case, speed in the beginning and hopefully more control as the dog learns to focus more. My agility teacher runs Springers, and her two youngest ones have started out a little slow, but then speed up as they gain confidence and begin to enjoy themselves (i.e. they get used to the agility atmosphere and it is less stressful).

 

I don't think you have to worry about time in Excellent (based on the video you posted), at least in AKC trials. You look like you would make SCT easily. My friend has about the slowest dog out there, but he can still Q by just trotting around the course. Sometimes it is a squeaker though. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but where the speed advantage comes in is in accumulating time points for a MACH title when you reach Excellent. (I do not think about it too much since I still have to finish one leg in NA and then get through Open. I need to focus on that.) So actually, consistency is REALLY important in Excellent since you have to get those double Qs for the MACH titles.

 

Jovi

[gcv-border]

I think you have to do what is best for your dog and you - regardless of whether it is more control in the beginning and transitioning to speed as they gain confidence -- or as in my case, speed in the beginning and hopefully more control as the dog learns to focus more. My agility teacher runs Springers, and her two youngest ones have started out a little slow, but then speed up as they gain confidence and begin to enjoy themselves (i.e. they get used to the agility atmosphere and it is less stressful).

 

I don't think you have to worry about time in Excellent (based on the video you posted), at least in AKC trials. You look like you would make SCT easily. My friend has about the slowest dog out there, but he can still Q by just trotting around the course. Sometimes it is a squeaker though. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but where the speed advantage comes in is in accumulating time points for a MACH title when you reach Excellent. (I do not think about it too much since I still have to finish one leg in NA and then get through Open. I need to focus on that.) So actually, consistency is REALLY important in Excellent since you have to get those double Qs for the MACH titles.

 

Jovi

[alligande]

I compete mostly in NADAC just because it is the only venue that is not AKC with a number of trials in my area. The trials I go to have a great atmosphere, the course times are tight we have run clean, with decent speed finished first in class and missed time by a couple of seconds. I also like the fact that if my dog is up to it I can run 6 classes at $13.00 a run ( that is indoors with the ac on).

 

I have just started to compete in USDAA as there is now a few trials that are local, it was fun, a very competitive enviroment, but unlike NADAC they use all the equipment

[storminthenight]

Good News!

I was at the club today helping out with a per therapy evaluation and took Kari along to work on weaves afterwards.

She did the faster weaves she's ever done, and was actually running through them. I did alot of praise and coaching while she was running through them, and stayed a little ahead of her. I also rewarded her by throwing the ball, which got her energy up. She was actually fetching the ball and bringing it back to me, a first for her.

On another note, I think I might actually take her through the Pet Therapy evaluation. Everyone commented on how well behaved she was. I crated her while the evaluations were going on, and didn't even think about the fact she was close to the vacuum cleaner, but she was totally laid back just watching everything.

But anyway back to the point, it was only one practice session but its a start

[SecretBC]

Good to hear! Speed starts in practice first!

 

Re: UKC -- I do not think it will help you achieve the goals you have to speed up your dog. UKC is very, very technical (more so than AKC, which is almost too technical for my tastes). My Klee Kai is a UKC-registered breed and I would like to get the UKC agility titles to "add to his name," but I just know he would hate it with a passion. For as hard as I've worked to make the agility ring a happy place for him, I'm hesitant to ruin it for him by taking him to a UKC trial where I would have to work to slow him down.

 

You do not need to do obstacle familiarization with your dog (if that is a benefit you see to doing UKC trials). The more trials or fun matches you attend, the more comfortable your dog will become with new equipment -- So that soon it will be old hat and new environments won't be a big deal.

 

I love NADAC and the flowing courses could definitely help to bring out Kari's natural speed. Just don't be discouraged if you don't make time in the beginning, because times are much tighter in NADAC than in AKC (although at Novice it shouldn't be too bad).

 

CPE is even more laid-back and might be a good fit for you. The times are very lenient and the courses tend to be very friendly.

 

And just a quick note about jump heights -- Just because your dog CAN jump the moon doesn't mean it's necessarily the best thing for them. My little 14" dog can scale the back of my couch (3 1/2') without a problem, but I won't even run him at 16" in agility. Luke can jump 26", but I won't run him in USDAA where he has to jump 22" in Performance (waiting for them to roll out the vet program....). Secret can clear 30", but she'll start at 16".

 

Those of us who choose to start our dogs lower don't do it because our dogs *can't* jump higher, we do it to make things easier and less stressful on them. People new to agility focus on the height of the jumps, but you soon learn it's not about the jumps at all -- It's about what happens between them.

[storminthenight]

If I did UKC I'd have to take a seperate class just to learn the extra obstacles, and of course get her registered with them. The two reasons I wasn't jumping to try it. I had heard from the instructors that it was easier than AKC, but perhaps they were talking about the time.

We did start off training at a lower height, and then gradually raised it up. Kari was two years old before we entered our first trial. I just mentioned she can jump higher than 20" to emphasize that that height isn't hard for her. She very rarely knocks a bar, in class or competition.

I've only seen her jump 24" because a spare jump was left at that height when we were trianing at the club, I didn't ask, she was just having fun, lol.

I think the instructors at the club do a good job of exposing the students & dogs to equipment and harder levels, we've done things in class that are at a harder level than novice. When I first started I thought "why are we doing this? " but now I'm grateful, for some reason I had the idea in my head that we would train at the novice level, complete novice and then come back to class to learn the next level, lol. I think their way works better

[PSmitty]

I think the instructors at the club do a good job of exposing the students & dogs to equipment and harder levels, we've done things in class that are at a harder level than novice. When I first started I thought "why are we doing this? " but now I'm grateful, for some reason I had the idea in my head that we would train at the novice level, complete novice and then come back to class to learn the next level, lol. I think their way works better

 

Yep, this is the way to do it. At our club, we've always run harder courses and sequences in practices, than we've had at trials. So, we were practicing on courses that were more Open/Exc level when we were running Novice at trials. It didn't mean we always breezed through, since the trial atmosphere is so different than practice, but it meant we were "extra" prepared.

[SecretBC]

One of the reasons I no longer teach at a local facility is because the owner was upset that I was having my Novice Competition students running Excellent-level courses (and they did them well!!). She thought that I shouldn't "challenge" them with anything harder than Novice exercises.

 

Because yeah... They'll really improve that way.

 

 

She can feel free to set up easy exercises for HER classes (because she's not all that advanced, herself), but I'll be damned if I let my students sit in a stalemate because of her inadequacies and insecurities.

 

Sorry for the tangent. lol

[SecretBC]

I had heard from the instructors that it was easier than AKC, but perhaps they were talking about the time.

 

Yes, times are very generous in UKC agility -- Even more so than AKC (which I already find extremely lenient).

 

But really, the main "bonus" to UKC is that you can qualify with a less than perfect run. You start out with 200 points and only need 170 to get a qualifying score. Your dog almost has to die on course to not qualify in AG1. Okay, I kid... Sort of.

 

In that vein, CPE is also considered easier than AKC, if that's what you are looking for.

[PSmitty]

One of the reasons I no longer teach at a local facility is because the owner was upset that I was having my Novice Competition students running Excellent-level courses (and they did them well!!). She thought that I shouldn't "challenge" them with anything harder than Novice exercises.

 

Because yeah... They'll really improve that way.

 

Yeah, that's BS.

[Andale]

Getting back to the original topic... I'm training weaves with my 2year old BC Speedy and I first used 2x2's to train entries followed by 6, 10, 12 poles set up in a channel. Were still working on consistency, not popping out of the weaves. The channels were first set up with 4", then 3", 1" then 0" spacing. Here's a short video clip:

 

[AgileBC]

I haven't read all the other posts yet, so hopefully I dont repeat. . .

 

I started training on channel weaves with my BC girl and then later worked with 2x2s to fine tune her entries (that I think I messed up at some point).

 

Try opening your poles up to form a channel with about 6" of space in the middle. Run them several times. If she is motivated by toys and/or tug, throw a toy straight ahead of the poles (with your outside arm) as she exits the last pole. If she's not interested in toys, maybe try a food tube, so you can throw it and then run to it to release the treats. Close the poles up over a couple days time. If she's not used to driving to a thrown toy or food tube, practice without the poles first.

 

Try restraining her by her collar to rev her up a bit before you send her to the weaves "Reaaadddy, go!" (be sure to give her a little space so she can hit the entry).

 

While you are training, you could try rewarding a slightly faster performance more richly than a slower one. I use "Jackpots" to mark when my dog does a super awesome job, or if we are working on something really tough and she does a spectacular job. A "jackpot" is a special treat (or toy, etc.) that "appears" randomly when the dog does something great in training. At home a jackpot for my dog could be some freezedried raw food, a trip to the park to throw the frisbee (the park is just behind our house) or a BIG handfull of yummy treats, etc. I use the word "Jackpot" after my marker word usually, so it goes: Kyla does something awesome, "yes!", "jackpot!", party

 

Once you get a faster performance in training. . . . surprise the heck out of your dog at the first trial back: When she hits her weave poles and has good speed, say "Yes! Jackpot!" and dance out of the ring together to go get her fav jackpot treat. If running the course is more rewarding than the jackpot, say YES! (or your marker word) when she exits the weaves with speed and continue on.

 

different ideas. . .

goodluck

 

 

So my girl Sakari now has her NA & NAJ title, and a leg in standard and jumpers in Open. She has got to the point were she is doing 12 poles perfectly, this past weekend we entered a trial and she did the weaves fine all 4 runs over two days.

BUT . . . she is extremely slow & deliberate about it, and now that we are in Open we need to gain some speed.

She started out learning with the 2X2 method, and got to the point she could do 6 poles very close together, but if you put the poles straight she didn't get it. So one day at home I put the weaves straight and pointed/directed her, and after doing that a couple of times (telling her "in, out, in, out") she got it.

I recently tried using guide wires, and at first she tried jumping over them, then after a few attempts I did get her to do 12 weaves with them, but I think it actually slowed her down.

If I encourage her I can get her to go a bit faster, but she sometimes pops out on the last couple of weaves, so I'm afraid to do it to much during a competition.

So apart from just practising with her more, is there anything I can do to speed her up a bit?

[AgileBC]

"I know when it came to the weaves I was especially careful because I knew we would be moving up to Open and you pretty much have to get the weaves first time if you want to qualify." Ohhh that made me cringe! lol

 

Forget about qualifying or moving up to open for a little bit! You will have so much more fun when you are sure of yourself and your dog.

 

Challenge yourself to work on enthusiasm and speed. Set up a line of four jumps and a tunnel (or something similar) and start with the jumps lower than competition height (maybe 12"). Set your dog up in front of the first jump and then RUN. Run as fast as you can! When you and your dog reach the end of the easy, straight sequence, have a party, lots of treats, etc (maybe toys and tugging IF she will play WITH you). Just have tons of fun! (I lower the bars at first so she can run without knocking bars all over the place; you would gradually raise the bars as she gets used to running really fast!)

 

With the playing with toys. . .maybe try to give her 5 minutes per day with JUST you (not the other dogs). (it is tough to focus on just one behavior when you have a group of dogs) Toss around toys for her and give her a big (food) reward for bringing them back. Try tugging a bit with a piece of knotted fleece or a toy you can stuff with food. Playing with/retriving/tugging with toys is not REQUIRED for agility, but it's great to have toys/tugging in your agility toolbox! : -)

 

forget qualifying, moving up and competing for just a bit . . . RUN! : -)

 

Thank you for watching and giving a perspective from a more experienced eye. At the point we were at, I figured precision was more important than time. Kari keeps her eyes on me, and we are just now getting to were we can do a rear cross, because at first she would NOT go ahead of me.

This was only our second ever trial, but I actually saw her speed up overall without my encouragement, especially on the jumper courses, I think she enjoys them more than standard.

I know I need to loosen up more and just run it, but I am scared of making mistakes. I think the speed is just going to come over time with both me and Kari getting more confident. I know when it came to the weaves I was especially careful because I knew we would be moving up to Open and you pretty much have to get the weaves first time if you want to qualify.

I don't think Kari is afraid to make a mistake because of me, she's always been very cautious and slow until she's more sure of things. When we are training she gets big praise/rewards whenever she does it right, and maybe an 'at' and lets try again when she doesn't. I've never been harsh on her.

In training I've tried running ahead of her, staying behind, and staying with her like I did in the trial. The only time I really saw a speed increase was if I stayed with her and cheerleaded.

Next time we go to the club I'm going to try the target plate, and try incorporating toys more too. I think when we get into the advanced agility class that will help, and I can try "just running" and working more on speed.